StuRobson Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I've just started a DVD project for a local band which'll last a year - sooner or later I had to ask this question as another band has asked for a mini dvd for them so I'll need to film a gig of theirs but get the best sound . any ideas I've got a 3m stereo jack (that goes in the mic in) to a 2 x mono jack (which comes from a mixer) but I'm not sure which out put to take it from - I suppose obviously the left and right out before the pa but what leads convertor things would you think I need anyway any ideas on any of it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Try to use a line in rather than a mic in, otherwise you may have to mess about with levels and attenuators. The most important thing to remember is that if you are taking a feed from the main out of the PA, then what you are recording is what is going thru the PA - which may or not bear some resemblance to the sound in the hall. You will not pick up any "direct sound"- eg if the band has a drum kit which is not mic'd, you will not pick it up. Also, it'll sound "dead" cos you will not pick up any audience noise, which makes a recording of a live gig seem strange.... If you have a mixer with a couple of spare groups, you could set up a pair of atmosphere mics in the main auditorium. Don't feed these to the main mix, but feed all channels plus the atmos to a spare stereo group and record that... effectively you get a separate(ish) PA and recording mix Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 If your camera has it use, the line in. If you can, get a small mixer, and put the line out from the Desk into one channel 1, then get a mic for ambiance and put this into channel 2 on the miwer and feed these to the camera. If you have something like a PD170 it'll have the inputs with control so you can put one in each channel. You can then pan and mix down the seperate signals in the editing app, such as Final Cut for the Mac or premiere for the PC. The Simply DV forum has loads of information on the video side of this type of thing and may be worth a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 In a pinch, I have used an active DI box, and just used a lead on the output to unbalance it into the camera's mike input (1-sleeve 2-tip 3-no conn.)... however if is a consumer camera, you have the problem of the auto gain control "pumping" when the audio is changing in level. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Personaly I would not recomend taking a desk feed for all the reasons mentioned above. I would recomend getting a couple of decent mics, experiment with positioning and either rig a spaced pair or as an M/S pair. Take this to dat and run a line from the t/c out of the dat to the camera you are using. You can easily split this to multiple cameras which would make syncing them up a breeze. If you are serious about putting together a nice DVD you might consider also taking a few iso chanels or groups from the desk to d88 ADAT or similar (again slaving to DAT t/c) whick might help you when you come to dub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Surely you'd want a separate recording of the audio taken off the desk which you would then edit back together come production time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 There aren't too many options here. 1. record using the camera mic - the agc will squash it down and it will be loud, but thin sounding. You do get crowd noise which is always good for a live recording. 2. Desk output, via a DI into the mic socket. Works fine, but as mentioned, you get a very unbalanced sound - especially in a smaller venue. 3. with a stereo camera socket, feed DI from desk into one, feed a room mic into the other. Edit afterwards and balance the two into mono. 4. desk output, with audience mics - run off a matrix or stereo prefade aux, balanced by someone with a set of DT100's or similar closed cans. multiple cameras are fine if you've a decent editing system that can time slip tracks. The complications make a single camcorder option look atractive! So speaks me who has spent the last two days attempting to edit a two camera, 1 hour show and separate audio track into one whole! It's rendering now - Premiere tells me it will take 8 hours to do,and I bet it runs out of hard drive space before it's done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Payne Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Hello... Assuming all the channels you need are comming into the desk... (Kick, Snr, Hats, Toms, OHs, GTRS, KEYS, Bass Voxs etc).... If you take the direct desk mix for a gig (especially in a small venue (sub 1000 people)), the desk mix will be vocal and keys heavy and light on snare and gtrs. This is becuase the PA is "reinforcing" the band stage sound (not "replacing" it). Assuming backline... the Gtrs are aleady in the room along with the accoustic snr.... so Get a free Aux (yeh fat chance I hear you say) on the desk and generate your own submix. I would have it pre fade. Get the band to live with one less monitor mix. If they want that DVD that will have to put up with it. Buss that mono Aux out to a little desk and bring in an ambient mic here. I would pan the direct sub mix hard left and the ambo mic hard right. You can remix the ambo/direct sound at post production. You can use your little desk to run your closed back DT100 type cans. You will need a LOT of headphone headroom from that mixer otherwise you will never hear it over the gig. Also.... do not be fooled into undermixing the bass and kick in your cans. You see you will feel this in the venue and underestimate in the cans mix. Also... I have 100 things to tell you but I have to go make some money! Oh Also... hire a split core and another desk, run that out to a back room.. get another mix done and sent back to your camera. Wireless if your need. Call me at SF if I can help you with any bits you need. Cheers Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Si Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I am doing one in March and the organisers thought it'd be cool do make a video of the gig, but naturally, they want it to sound good. I have a fostex D2424LV and have 24 direct outs too. What I was thinking about doing was to have the fostex connected to the relevant amount of channels used, and having a couple of Rode NT3's as ambience, audience sound to give it that live feel. The only problem would be the gain of the inputs to the desk not being setup for recording, but live - so I don't know whether any would clip or not. It'd be interesting to see (or hear?!) The desk I have is a behringer MX9000 which is actually more inclined to be a recording desk. But it is an inline desk with a "Mix B" section giving me effectively 24 extra channels - so maybe I could take all the relevent direct outs, feed them into the mix B jack inputs and then send the output of mix be to a camera and poss a couple of channels on the Fostex too, (as a backup copy). What do you all think? Si Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zed Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 Direct line from mixing desk to cam. I'm using a PD170 to video a national music competition that takes me all over Australia. A few minutes gets broadcast every week. Usually its only one vocal and one guitar, simple mix. But I have a different sound engineer and pa/desk each week. I use separate channels and take a direct line from the desk on one and use a radio mic on the other. Depending on the situation (background noise, bad mix etc) I rely on one more than the other when editing. However, on the direct line, if I get a singer on some set-up with a big voice or rides the mic too hard my-line in channel doesn't just go into the red but rides up to the max and completely breaks up. Anyone got any ideas on how I can solve this. Cheers, Zed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 One thing you might try is just to record room sound, inc the audience into the camera from the built in, get a copy on cd (or even MD) and sync the two during editing. Sync isn't a problem, as from the back, the audio is out of sync anyway. Stability is pretty good once you've lined the audio and video up - even if one does drift, it can be put right so easily nowadays - saves all this messing about with leads, that only get in the way. mind you - this thread is so old, it's probably done by now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 @ Zed: Try a compressor (ideally a limiter). Either something like the behringer *shudder* sharc, which is small however not battery powered, or a film/ ENG audio mixer. This will keep the levels under control so that they stay more manageable by your camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Si Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Behringer compressors are great! - it's something they're very good at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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