Letting Others Use The Venue?

[paulfurze]

Hi All,

 

We've recently installed a sound system in our venue.

But now we're looking into contractual and legal stuff about letting other interested parties use it.

 

Can anyone on here just point me in the right direction?

The following questions may help in inderstanding what I'm asking...

 

1) How do you assess the competancy of any new operators?

Do you have written test/exams or just do it via informal methods?

 

2) If a local, say playgroup, want to use the system, we obvously need to have some sort of contract in place.

But what is that contract called? (Is it simply the same as a hire company would use?)

I'm guessing that the user group would require some form of insurance to cover any damage to our equipment, how do you assess the cover required?

 

Anything else you can think of along these terms would be really appreciated.

 

Thanks

Paul.

[LXbydesign]

As a short answer, anybody wishing to use a venues technical kit would also expect to have to pay for a technician to be on-site.

 

The tech would be there to switch on / switch off the gear and help with setiing up etc etc.

 

It also depends on the complexity of your sound install!

 

In any case, a proper hire agreement contract should be drawn up for the venue. Usually, use of basic sound and lighting equipment is included in the hire and would come with a technician. This needs to be considerd in your pricing.

[kerry davies]

Hi Paul, in many cases the hire of the venue includes hire of a technical overseer to protect the safety and integrity of the systems in place. Very few venues have complete "dry-hire" but you don't say what sort of venue you have.

It may be an idea to see what your local authority does in the way of contracts for any of their venues but there may well also be someone on BR willing to email a copy of their venue contracts. Your own insurance policies could be arranged to cover others usage and a consideration included in the hire fee rather than as an add-on.

 

Just as an example take a look at this; http://www.gloucester.gov.uk/Freetime/Guildhall/guildhalldocuments/guildhallhirebrochure2011.pdf

and note that use of the main PA system is separately negotiated and has technician hire as an element.

[paulfurze]

Kerry / LXbydesign

Thanks for quick replies.

 

This is were it now gets tricky....

The Hall is our local Town Hall and its currenlty run by the local council.

However, the PA etc is owned by the 'Trust' which is a local community group. The Trust will, shortly, have a lease to manage the Hall and then things'll get easier.

 

Trouble is we currenlty have so few tech's available and getting them trained will take a little while.

Some groups have asked if they can use their own techs. I can't see any issue with this as long as we can assess their competancy and go over the local knowledge.

But this leaves us unprotected if something goes wrong and the equipment gets broken.

 

From what your saying its us that need insurance to cover us hiring it out? or have I got that wrong?

 

Thanks again,

Paul.

[kerry davies]

Speak to your broker for specific insurance advice but in broad terms either you or the hirer needs to be insured against the risks. My personal feeling would be to arrange Trust insurance cover and pass on costs in a hire charge as you can never be too sure that everyone will get the same level of cover and at least you will be satisfied and confident of coverage.

Think van hire, a client can arrange his own cover but the reduction in hire charges is usually minimal. As in van hire, inexperienced clients get hammered with extra premiums or a larger excess so that could also be included in your contracts.

Basically you decide who can and cannot use your kit and under what conditions. Again talk to your broker as there a many ways of skinning this particular cat and they may have better suggestions than me.

[plymbubba]

the other way to look at it is if they break any of the equipment then they will be responable for getting it repaired / replaced and would agree with other os this in that a in house tech is on site during the performance

[paulfurze]

Thanks again for the quick and helpful responses.

 

Obvious question then...There must be insurance companies that specialise in this sort of set up - Any suggestions on who to go to?

 

Thanks

Paul.

[paulears]

Insurance companies don't like risks that seem almost guaranteed to require a payout.

 

I'm surprised the new trust haven't already got insurance planned - Essentially the trust will run the venue and be responsible for everything. The PA will be just one of a myriad of physical and technical items in the venue, so I should simply make certain they do this properly and forget trying to insure the PA as one-off. The trust may even decide to NOT insure the kit - a business decision.

 

However, you won't be able to dry hire the venue without at least some staff. If you hire it out and somebody falls off a ladder, or electrocutes themselves, or simply props open the fire doors and lets rabble in who steal everything - the trust will be responsible.

 

My venue - who do everything wrong, even appreciate this - but for some regulars, allow them to use the stage for rehearsals with no lights or sound - with the bar manager being there to lock up. If they want sound, lights, flying or anything else, they pay for staff. I doubt an insurance company would be happy to cover somewhere potentially dangerous with no supervision.

 

Hire of the kit also becomes less of an issue - you just build technical into the hire rates. Do you want sound? Kerchink! Lights, Kerchink! The trust will need to make money so can't afford to get it wrong.

[paulfurze]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the comments.

The Trust do have insurance that covers us for our own events.

The sound system was only installed last week so all these changes are happening now.

As I said above, the landlord is still the council, until we take the lease from them shortly.

As such the hire rate for the hall is paid to the council not the Trust and the council have their own insurances.

But, the PA etc is owned by the Trust and thus won't be covered by the council insurance.

Once we get the lease then things'll be different and our insurances have to change to reflect the changes in circumstances that come with that.

 

We have a Trust meeting next week and these points will be finallised then.

I'm thinking in the pre-lease time the Trust will have to 'Hire the System with and engineer' to those that want it as a seperate cost to the council hall charges.

We can then sort out our insurances to be changed after the lease is obtained.

 

At your venue Paul how do you do competancy assessments for new operators. Interviews? Exams? both?

 

Thanks

Paul.

[paulears]

Paul - you really must change your hat. Competency assessments? If you need a sound operator who can walk in and do the job, pretty much unaided, then you hire one you already know and trust. All they need is pointing towards where the 'turn on and plug up' devices are hidden. You then let them get on with it for the job. If you are put in the position where you don't know them, and have just read the CV, then I must admit that my own system, which for me is the only real way of working, is to scrutinise the CV, give them a phone call and have a chat. You can get a pretty good idea by slipping in a few crafty sentences and seeing if their response is the one you expect. I then just tell them what time to be there and that is that. I've had a couple who limped through the day, and just didn't get asked back - but the phone chat seems to work for me. I think many would be insulted by an exam - I would, and competencey assessments are just management speak. The work involved in setting these things up is way out of proportion.

 

No.1 get somebody you trust - otherwise,

No.2 talk to them - explain what you do, what you need and what kit you have. Ask them if this will be a problem. If they say no, and you get the picture they're fine - they probably will be.

 

I got a new sound op for the latter part of my season. He runs a tribute band, going back to the seventies - Gidea Park and those stars on 45 things. Uses sound live, but mainly does studio work, leaving live to others. Never worked in theatre as a sound op. I asked him to do a couple of shows because he's been quiet a while. Pointed to the stage boxes, showed him where the rack power was for the amps, pointed him at the desk - and that was that. We spent more time explaining theatrical terms than anything technical.

 

In your case, Paul - the hirers, if they are going to self-op, need the same treatment. They need to be informed that technical assistance is not provided and hirers need to be experienced with XYZ 12345 mixer and 123ABC (insert name of any particularly complex bit of kit).

 

To be honest, I don't think insurance is as important as you do, because it's standard practice to invoice damages, not claim on insurance. If they set fire to them, or get them stolen by leaving the doors open, you invoice the hirer. We always do when they wreck headsets on radio mics, or accidentally smash something.

 

If the trust have bought a nice system, and are charging for it - I'd really not worry, just make sure that everyone is aware damage has to be paid for!

[J Pearce]

I work at a reasonably equipped school who hire out the theatre and dance studios.

For regular hirers - stagecoach, a church etc - we train a nominated person who is then responsible, they have to be vagueley awake for me to be happy that I can trust them. One off hires have to pay me or a casual tech to come in and run for them.

[ojc123]

We're getting an increasing number of hires and we work more or less the same system as J Pearce. Our premise is that if it gets broken we bill them for repair or replacement. Stuff we don't want them to access is locked up.

[Boggy]

I go into a few venues that have been dry-hired to operate sound. In most cases the amps (and possibly a compressor) have been locked in a cabinet which I do not have access to. It sort of annoys me but also makes me feel better that the techs before me have not been able to drive it too hard.

[Matt Riley]

I pretty much agree with everything said above. When it comes to contracts, express, specific terms are always your best friend. Something in the normal hire contract like 'hirers of the hall are not permitted to use any installed sound, lighting or video systems without the prior (written) consent of the trust, which can be withdrawn at the discretion of the trust' which establishes a clear default 'no' which you can depart from at your own discretion. Also when you do allow individuals you trust from groups hiring the hall to use the system, then ensure that they sign a contract establishing that they understand the 'house rules', agree to pay for any breakages or losses to the system during the hire period, and that they are aware that they should seriously consider insuring themselves against the above damage, much like a standard T&Cs for a hire contract.

[spartacus]

Our venue policy is that a Stage Manger, Head Mechanist and Stage Door Attendant are always required. If any lighting equipment (even if it is 100% hired in) is used, an LX tech is required. If any sound equipment is used, than an AX tech is required, (the one proviso is by special arrangement with some hire companies ).