Intelligent Light Movements

[gabeparmley]

What is a Tilt Saw Movement or Pan Saw Movement?

[Joe Bleasdale]

Not really sure what your on about here...

 

But you can apply effects on lighting desks and SAWTOOTH is a common one they have. It's basically how the parameter acts during the effects, sine wave is a smooth wave, cosine is a smooth fade down, step is a jump to a value then jump back, sawtooth is usually a jagged fade to a value then a jagged fade back. Not very good on Pan and Tilt I'd say...

 

You could also be talking about a seesaw movement which would be one fixture jumping or fading to an up position while the other is in a down position then they swap. Like a 50/50 chase on tilt.

 

Thanks.

[gabeparmley]

Not really sure what your on about here...

 

But you can apply effects on lighting desks and SAWTOOTH is a common one they have. It's basically how the parameter acts during the effects, sine wave is a smooth wave, cosine is a smooth fade down, step is a jump to a value then jump back, sawtooth is usually a jagged fade to a value then a jagged fade back. Not very good on Pan and Tilt I'd say...

 

You could also be talking about a seesaw movement which would be one fixture jumping or fading to an up position while the other is in a down position then they swap. Like a 50/50 chase on tilt.

 

Thanks.

 

Hmmm... I am not sure if it is any of those. Here is the place I was reading it on (as well as other places on this website):

 

"Shapes or Chases – Pan Saw / Tilt Saw / Another that you like ( diamond, square etc). Some consoles allow to adjust the size/speed “on the fly” – very useful. If not, then a bit more work recording Fast, Slow versions."

http://www.onstagelighting.co.uk/band-lighting/concert-lighting-programming/

[mac.calder]

Sounds exactly like a Sawtooth. I would not call it "Jagged" - basically instead of ramping up to the top value, then ramping back down if the tilt is to go from 0->10 over 10 seconds then every second it will move up one. Once it gets to 10, it will snap back to 0 as fast as it can.

 

Look at this image (cannot be embedded because it is svg

 

Remember that all most effects generators are doing is maths. Instead of having a discrete value, they have a mathematical function. For a Tilt-Saw or a Tilt Sine, if you were to start at the start (0 for both of these) and move along the line, over the same period your value will change from 0 to X. How it gets there is the wave form type. Combining different types of waveform on pan and tilt, you can create movement "shapes" like circle, figure 8, diamond, square etc. You just have to know how they are made. Or have a desk that has done all that maths for you.

[alexadamson]

As I understand it is the shape the lights will move.

 

Think of seesaws and how they move back and forth, and then apply that to the lights movement either panning left to right or tilting up and down.

[Joe Bleasdale]

Thanks Michael, your right. I'm used to it being called Ramp Up on the Vector but I was getting confused between sawtooth and the "Random" weighted primitives that are on Hogs effects engine.

 

Thanks.

[gabeparmley]

Alright that makes sense I guess, but doesn't that seem really sudden? This lighting site is saying that its basically a must have shape/chase, but it seems to jerky or fast.

 

Also, does anybody have any experience with this lighting desk:http://elationlighting.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ItemNumber=1287&MainId=1&Category=Intelligent%20Consoles

 

I use this desk and cannot figure out how to use shapes and movements. It says it has an effects engine, but I am questioning that.

[niclights]

I'm certain it will be a linear up/down and therefore be perfectly smooth.

[gareth]

sine wave is a smooth wave, cosine is a smooth fade down

No, cosine is the same as a sine wave but 90 degrees out of phase with it.

 

step is a jump to a value then jump back, sawtooth is usually a jagged fade to a value then a jagged fade back

Again, no. If you look at the waveform of a typical 'sawtooth' effect, it's not a jagged fade at all, but actually a very smooth linear transition from one point to another with a very steep transition back again.

 

In the context of the OP's question, I suspect what he's talking about is applying a sawtooth effect to either pan or tilt on an automated (NOT intelligent <_<) fixture. It would still make the lights move, but wouldn't look nearly as smooth as a sine effect on a moving head, and the inertia of the moving unit would render it pretty useless. It would work better on a moving mirror fixture, without the inertia of the whole head to take into account.

 

 

Sine vs. Cosine :

http://www.avtronencoders.com/images/jpgs/sine-cosine.jpg

 

 

Sawtooth :

http://www.techwarereview.com/pics/sawtooth%20wave.jpg

A better option for a pan/tilt effect (again, only on a moving mirror IMO, as the inertia of a moving head wouldn't deal with the sharp transitions well) instead of a sawtooth type of waveform would be a 'triangle' or 'ramp' kind of thing - a bit like a squared-off sinewave, if you catch my drift. Then you wouldn't have the very sudden transition at the end of the ramp up to take into account.

http://www.korguksupport.co.uk/upload/image066.jpg

[niclights]

Just to follow up on that, while Gareth is absolutely correct it appears to be common for manufacturers to call triangular effects 'saw'. So a tilt or pan saw is usually actually a triangle saw. And when sawtooth effects are used they tend to be named 'pulse or ramp'.

[gabeparmley]

Thank you all very much! Very useful to know these things

[Leggy]

Is this not an Avoism?

 

Pan saw and tilt saw are effects you can select in the shape generator, the waveform is as shown in the last picture in Gareth's post. It's known as sawtooth in Hog world, other manufacturers undoubtedly give it their own special name.

 

It seems to me to be an article written by someone accustomed to using Avo terminology, which is understandable as it's widely spoken.

 

Leggy.

[greenalien]

Also, does anybody have any experience with this lighting desk:http://elationlighti...gent%20Consoles

 

I use this desk and cannot figure out how to use shapes and movements. It says it has an effects engine, but I am questioning that.

 

The webpage that you quote offers the option to download the manual for the desk. In there, you will find information on Factory Chases - these are the preset pan and tilt movements that can be applied to your chases.

[Jamtastic3]

Saw tooth shapes are usually used with tilt and dimmer combined so that you get a constant 'upward or 'downward' movement of light.

 

I use it all the time and it's a great yet classic effect.

 

Here's an example where the saw tooth is being ramped upwards although unfortunately it's the only example I could find quickly!

 

(skip to 20 seconds)

[james.sealey]

Now if that doesn't make you miss TOTP, nothing will!