Roderick Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Just to see how things are done in the UK, I thought I'd have a look at BS 7906-2, 'Code of practice for use of aluminium and steel trusses and towers 'Bear in mind this is not a Standard but a Code of Practice, or at least according to the title. I can't tell you what it is because BSI want to charge me GBP74 for it, all 12(!) pages of it. In PDF!BSI ShopStandards are bad enough and cost me a small fortune every year to stay up-to-date, Australian Standards are just as greedy as any other, but at least Codes of Practice are freely available from WorkCover. How are people supposed to know what they should be doing if you make the information so ridiculous expensive?Put a nominal value on it, couple of quid to cover admin, but downloaded documents shouldn't be that expensive.But even for a nicely bound version GBP74 is ridiculous, it is 12 pages, 6 sheets of A4 if printed double sided. Believe me, my definition of BS now has little to do with British or Standards, much more bovine related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainwave-generator Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Just to see how things are done in the UK, I thought I'd have a look at BS 7906-2, 'Code of practice for use of aluminium and steel trusses and towers 'Bear in mind this is not a Standard but a Code of Practice, or at least according to the title. I can't tell you what it is because BSI want to charge me GBP74 for it, all 12(!) pages of it. In PDF!BSI ShopStandards are bad enough and cost me a small fortune every year to stay up-to-date, Australian Standards are just as greedy as any other, but at least Codes of Practice are freely available from WorkCover. How are people supposed to know what they should be doing if you make the information so ridiculous expensive?Put a nominal value on it, couple of quid to cover admin, but downloaded documents shouldn't be that expensive.But even for a nicely bound version GBP74 is ridiculous, it is 12 pages, 6 sheets of A4 if printed double sided. Believe me, my definition of BS now has little to do with British or Standards, much more bovine related Been reading 7906-1 this morning (relating to lifting and suspending loads over people). With a bit of googling you can find out the ins and outs of most of the BS's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashcrashboom Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Hi Roderick To be honest all BS documents are written for lawyers and solicitors. It is really about following the instructions from the manufactures and good working practices.Truss will be made to a BS standard and rigged to a BS Standard admittedly but that BS standard will also be best working practice, safe, and to the manufacturers guide lines. Here's the best book for how we do it in in the UK An Introduction to Rigging in the Entertainment Industry (Applications & Techniques all for the reasonable sum of £23 For the record I do agree that they're over priced, but they are also, if you ever read them, and I have they're written very factual unless you know exactly what everything means, not much use or as you said moopoo. As with everything rigging related "Get trained, Get Qualified, Get it right!" FCB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 To be honest all BS documents are written for lawyers and solicitors.Rubbish. I've got loads of BS documents here covering a wide range of topics and on the whole they are written by people working in the industry for people working in the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSA Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Brian is absolutely correct. British Standards are on the whole very well put together documents which bring together a lot of information and research into a coherent and useable format. They are certainly not written for lawyers and solicitors as you suggest. As an example, standards provide a common base for structured and economic engineering design, and tend to provide even more economies (of material etc.) with each revision. It is also worth pointing out that standards can usually be viewed for free through your local library. If you use a lot of standards each year you might want to look into a subscription which can offer significant savings over indicidual copies: either direct with the BSi or an independent service. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pritch Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 It is also worth pointing out that standards can usually be viewed for free through your local library. I'm sure that'll be handy to the antipodean OP! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSA Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 It is also worth pointing out that standards can usually be viewed for free through your local library. I'm sure that'll be handy to the antipodean OP! :PGood point, I missed that. A potentially useful thing for UK members though (it's often available online so doesn't necessarily require a trek down to the main library), and having said that perhaps Australian libraries have access to BSi's catalogue too? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderick Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 To be honest all BS documents are written for lawyers and solicitors. It is really about following the instructions from the manufactures and good working practices.Truss will be made to a BS standard and rigged to a BS Standard admittedly but that BS standard will also be best working practice, safe, and to the manufacturers guide lines. <snip>As with everything rigging related "Get trained, Get Qualified, Get it right!"I believe you missed the point about the post.I have no intention whatsoever to rig anything anywhere any time soon, way too old for that malarkey.But I do want to be able to judge between good practice and poor workmanship. I am not one of those 'elf & safety nazi's' who cause grief by not understanding what they are looking at, I like to learn and keep up-to-date with what is 'best practice' in our industry. When you say 'truss will be rigged to a BS standard', how do I know that if I don't know what the standard is? Can't see a lawyer climbing the roof to explain some poor sod how it should be done in his pen-pushing opinion. My argument is that if there are better or safer ways to do things, people should have access to that information, otherwise what is the point? As for reference books, can't go past Chris Higgs excellent book :) But books, no matter how well written, will never have the legal standing a Code or Standard has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 What use is a BRITISH standard in Australia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramdram Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 (T-I-C warning) I believe the ref to lawyers was post the accident and you were on trial for not following the CoP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 "Standards are designed for voluntary use and do not impose any regulations. However, laws and regulations may refer to certain standards and make compliance with them compulsory." From the BSI Group website. Hells teeth, BS aren't even best practice, they are only good practice and what competent practitioners should be expected to conform with. http://www.theilp.org.uk/uploads/File/Technical/BS%200%20Clarification1.pdf For a company with 2,500 employees worldwide with revenue of well over £200m a year you'd think they would come clean and say they are a capitalist enterprise and not some sort of benevolent font of all knowledge and wisdom. Using the term Code Of Practice to cover BS and manufacturers instructions and even the ABTT tallescope guidance has confused the issue of ACOPs, Approved COP's which are authorised by the HSE and are legally weighty documents. Even EHO's seem to have fallen for the BS BS. If they were truly interested in creating quantifiable measures of good practice with safety as the main concern they would stop changing the standards whenever they need income, offer them at a reasonable price and desist from issuing over 2,000 new ones every bl00dy year.THAT, I believe, is Rodericks rant, it is mine! Paul, in Oz they own a company called Benchmark Certification and issue BS over there at the same insane rate as here and in 127 other countries. They are the Murdoch's of certification bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderick Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 What use is a BRITISH standard in Australia?Several.Many British Standards are aligned with Australian Standards and vice versa. At the moment there is no Australian equivalent for entertainment rigging standards.I am interested to see what BS has to offer as 'best practice' and if applicable see what we can do here. No point reinventing the wheel.If the BS are suitable within the Australian codes and regulations, it will be worth putting together a group of major players and test responses to see if there is a benefit in contacting AS with the suggestion to adopt specific BS as a whole or as a template. But even without that, I am always interested to see how other people / countries / organisations deal with similar problems.Never too old to learn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 THAT, I believe, is Rodericks rant, it is mine! Quite so. FWIW I heartily agree with both of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitlane Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Ok, so I've got BS 7906-2:2000 open in another window. Here is a quick summary of what it contains. Page 1 - Title PagePage 2 - List of committees responsible for this BSPage 3 - Contents PagePage 4 - Foreward including "This British Standard is based on the American draft standard."Page 5 & 6 - Scope and definitions (e.g. "crack - crevice type discontinuity in a material")Page 7 - 'Manufacturer's guidelines and recommendations', 'Applied loads, 'Handling', 'Erection'Page 8 & 9 - 'Inspection'Page 10 - Blank (except for the word 'blank' in the footer)Page 11 - BibliographyPage 12 - Blurb about BSI About 2,100 words in pages 5 through 9. I have nothing against British Standards, but this one 'aint worth the money. Get Chris Higgs' books and the one on aluminium structures from the same publisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abrell Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Here is a standard from Germany, but in English language: http://www.igvw.org/...e11/page11.html And another one for chain hoists: http://www.igvw.org/...age8/page8.html In other countries you will have to check if there are other regulations. But physics and common sense seem to be the same everywhere.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.