lighting design for small gigs

[jimdrake]

Hi,

 

These forums seem largely about the technical challenges with lighting gear, I wonder if a good discussion can be had on lighting design?

 

I am interested in stepping up the production value of small music gigs. The gig is either a DJ, or solo electronic act, or solo stuff (acoustic guitar/vocals) or maybe duet (drums and vocals, lie the Ting Tings).

 

Small stage sizes, say 4m to 6m wide and however deep you get in those crappy venues (not much!).

 

Basically I'm bored of the kind of red/purple wash that you get with standard bar band setups. And with DJ setups I'm bored of the standard "put some random moving stuff over the dancefloor".

 

I would like some help or tips with the design. Whenever I google 'lighting design', you get lots of 'theatre lighting 101' stuff. Or for music stuff you get people talking about the Deadmau5 design which is obviously way too big for me.

 

I think that basically with the cheap LED stuff that's available, you no longer need to carry heavy dimmers around. And I am happy to program it from the computer I already have. And at work we have a USB-DMX interface tat I can use.

 

I'm also thinking about projectors as well. You can get these tiny projectors that even store video content in themselves.

 

The idea would be to have a finished design that's really easy on power and weight. So you could just walk into whatever siht venue, just ask them to turn all the house lights OFF, and you can plug your lights in and around the backline with minimal fuss or power issues.

 

------

 

Here is one example idea. Is it good/bad/stupid?

 

DJ riser is 1m x 2m and 1m high. Is draped solid black so just looks like a big black box in the middle of the stage. All the DJ gear can go on that.

2-4 LED PARCANS as backlight (I don't really know how many is needed) behind the DJ

White rope-light that outlines the DJ riser and legs, so can be a big white glowing box.

Two moving 'things' that go either side of stage, on-top of speaker stack or something, and point at the dancefloor.

One (or two) fog machines. Not to over smoke the place, just left slightly on continual to keep a haze all the time.

(optional) some UV something?

(optional) 2-4 LED PARCANS as sidelights or floorlights?

 

then this is all relatively easily all chained together with one line of DMX coming from the computer. all lights always show the same colour (ie no stupid red/purple mix) and flash in sync (either sound-to-light or programmed with the music in mind).

 

-----

 

This can then be usefully adapted for drummer + singer.

 

Backlight stuff behind drummer.

 

Rope light in a circle around the singer.

 

-----

 

OR. All the house lights off and just one projector covering the whole stage. Playing just colours and patterns, not necessarily video content.

 

I have seen this a few times and it does really work. Especially if you get the band to wear all white or something.

 

Problem with this is always a hard place to find a place to rig the projector, as no small venues have a good thing in the roof. And putting a big box in the middle of the dancefloor is stupid.

 

----

 

do all the LED PARCANS have a good enough 'refresh' rate to be used usefully as strobes?

[Ynot]

Welcome to the Blue Room first and foremost.

 

However, the answer to your question is probably not what you want/need to hear, but I'll try to paraphrase the main responses I think you'll get from those with enough experience to have it actually mean anything.

 

The reason you won't see much about actual lighting design is because as with ANY design, the target you're aiming at is purely subjective. this means that only you, or the people you're working for at any given time, can have have ANY realistic idea about what the end result needs to be. Even with discos (which I guess is your main stock in trade) there could well be different needs for different gigs, and that depends on the type of music you play at each one as well as your intended audience. For example, lighting a 70s style disco will be different from, say, a trance gig, which may differ from one aimed at a rock & roll style night.

 

Which is why often the discussions fall to the technical side of the gear rather than artistic. One reply here could suggest one style of lighting whilst another might think MAN that sounds awful, but your own opinion might fall in between them.

 

At the end of the day, YOU need to decide what sort of range of effect you're trying to achieve and build your gear and design around that.

[jimdrake]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Maybe I should clarify my position a bit.

 

My profession is not as a lighting tech, and no, my mainstay is not discos!

 

What I'm talking about is my productions, not providing lighting for others. I do not work in a position where I can play with loads of lighting gear, nor do I have any creative lampy friends.

 

I think I know what looks cool, and I do know what I think doesn't look good. But if I have the option between one rig that looks awesome but is a PITA to setup, and another one that looks awesome but is really easy to setup then I know which one I'll take.

 

What we currently have at work is four bars of 6 par cans, and a 24 channel dimmer rack that takes 63A 3phase input and is not a one man lift.

 

The bars of 6 are wired into socapex so they're not really a thing I can take apart easily and use for separate uplights for example.

 

Yes, I could play around with what I have, and maybe come up with something I like. But then I'm not going to take that heavy dimmer rack with me to a pub and ask them for a 63A feed!

 

I also don't have the experience to know how LED lights compare. For example, say I came up with a thing where 2 normal PARCANS was enough to backlight the drums, and then ordered some LED PARCANS to replace these, I don't know how they're going to compare.

 

Isn't the reason that nobody's talking about lighting small gigs is because nobody cares about small gigs? And once you get past a certain size of gig, you can hire lighting techs that are maybe experienced, and maybe work around other professionals who can offer cool ideas?

[Jivemaster]

Sadly the reason why small gigs get NO design time is that they pay too little. When you get a job to entertain 500 guests and the agent's pay you £150 three months later, you set up, perform, pack up and go home. The site visit time and the design presentation time would add cost to the budget which no-one wants to pay, so they don't get it.

[numberwrong]

In my opinion.....

 

Cheap LED PARs look crap if you can see the actual LEDs coz of the rgb mix so having them behind performers so the audience can see them will not be a good idea

Better off having them either side of the stage or above out of sight to give a wash, they generally dont have a tight beam like Long nose par 64s so you cant get the 'beam' effect like a normal par. they do work very well as strobes but again if you're not pointing them at the audience then the effect is lessened.

 

be careful of not having projectors shining in performers eyes, even looking in to a small projector can be nastier then a 1kw light . they can look very good if you project from a hight (to miss the performers) on to the back wall or on to the front of the dj table - you can get a lot of effect from one 'fixture' (in this case a projector) and it's small and easy to rig if you have a point to rig it on to.

 

I recently did a gig similar to what you're describing. I did it with 4 Abstract scanners and 4 LED PARs hooked up to magic Q PC. I had everything rigged to 1 bar to the front of the stage above the bands (that was all that was available). People are use to seeing disco scanners doing a cheesy sound to light disco chase but with some decent control they can pass for good(ish) stage lighting - I wasn't aloud smoke coz the venue got all pissy about it but I still got loads of comments about how good the lighting was for such a small LO FI gig. all the kit fit in my car and it took me 1.5 hrs to rig and program so it can be done.

 

Wind up stands give you loads of diversity as you create rigging points that aren't usually available. if you get regulars at a venue they will be use to seeing different lights rigged in the same 2 places - it will make your show 'stand' out (like the pun ;) ). theres no point in having lights if you cant rig them in a decent place to get their maximum potential.

 

I've also used bog standard 500w halogen floods as blinders - they work a treat in small venues and you can get very small truss mounted 4 way dimmers so no need for long cables for each channel - also 4 x 500w halogens could run from a 13a plug.

 

Going back to my good comments from that gig - basically if you are prepared to busk a light show even 2 PAR cans with some human control can give a better vibe then a bigger lighting rig with no one operating it. This is your biggest asset in making it work. With the 'design' aspect, if you dont have any one to advise you then just see what works and what donen't. The thing I like about this type if gig is you have to be creative with your kit and if you get it a bit wrong the punters that paid £5 in wont mind too much.

 

good luck

 

James

[Ynot]

My profession is not as a lighting tech, and no, my mainstay is not discos!

Apologies, but I saw a LOT of 'DJ' in the original post...

Isn't the reason that nobody's talking about lighting small gigs is because nobody cares about small gigs? And once you get past a certain size of gig, you can hire lighting techs that are maybe experienced, and maybe work around other professionals who can offer cool ideas?

Not really.

It's not about not caring, it's being practical.

 

As Jive has already said there isn't really a great deal of time available to those who work on small one-nighter gigs, and even less money, so even if you HAD a load of gear to use, to get a larger setup offloaded, rigged and running in what little time you have would likely take several pairs of hands to achieve. And whilst 'mate's rates' will get you so far, even mates will get fed up of just working for ber money.

 

But more isn't always better anyway.

 

They key to HOW you make it look different (and indeed different each gig) is in the detail. Carry a stock of varying gel colours for your par cans. Invest in some small profiles and a set of different gobos.

Yes, experiment with position, but have a plan of what you want to do and achieve before you get on site.

Which all comes down again to what I said first - only YOU can decide what actually looks good with what you have - noone here can design for you, or teach you the hows and whys over a forum - even one as experienced as this one.

[fireball40k]

I agree with the OP about the relative lack of discussion about small gigs here, but there's still plenty of great advice that can be scaled down a bit.

 

I have been developing a small rig for the last two years for just the kind of situation that you mention. It has been an enjoyable challenge to try to bring biggish show looks to a small stage or corner of a pub (for relatively little money). The defining factors for my rig are:

• It must be adaptable.
• It must be able to fit into an estate car.
• It must be quick to set up and break down.
• It must be able to work from two or three 13A sockets.
• It must be low cost to buy and maintain (to match the low income that you'll get from these types of gigs) – the majority of it has come from fleabay.

The rig is still a work in progress and I have gone down a couple of blind alleys (such as trying to introduce four old Martin scanners that filled the car and took an inordinate amount of time and effort to coax into operation), but generally I feel that I'm starting to get the looks that I want. This is how it stands at the moment:

 

Out front are a couple of open white profiles (S4 Jnr zoom) on stands for key lighting. Showtec shoebox dimmers used for these.

 

On stage, four or five quality LED par cans on the floor to give a changeable colour wash facing back and across the front band members.

 

A couple more LED par cans for drum lights.

 

Two sets of four Par 56 MFL on stands behind the band and facing out towards the audience – crossed and hitting the front of the stage. Colours here are red, light purple, green (or blue or orange) and open white. Controlled by Showtec dimmers.

 

That's the basics. Here are the specials:

 

A QTX FX1000 haze machine (where venues will allow).

 

Either side of the drums, a couple of open white S4 Jnr zooms on floor stands with breakup gobos (Rosco Bubbles Small 79650) facing out across the audience. These are VERY effective through the haze. I'd have more of these if I could. Apart from the fact that they don't move, these look as good as any similar gobo effect on a moving light at a fraction of the cost or hassle. I'd love to find some cheap gobo rotators to add a limited amount of movement to these.

 

Behind the drums on a stand, a set of eight PAR 36 Aeros. I've always loved the look of the big aeros but they just wouldn't have fitted in the car so I made these up and have not regretted it. You can find the plans here (http://www.blue-room...st=#entry339272). Again through the haze these look fantastic in a smallish venue, especially when you drop the front lighting. These also have a large optional link lead so the option is there to either use all eight in the middle fanning out or split them up into the two rear corners of the stage fanning in. In either case they are focussed with an even spread to the front edge of the stage. You need a 2KW channel for these so a shoebox dimmer is out of the question, therefore I have an old battered Zero 88 Beta 2 dimmer for the task.

 

All of the above is controlled from a Jester 12/24 from UsedLighting (still for sale at £550 + VAT) which despite its limiting size is a good solid desk (no option for moving light control though).

 

I am always trying to finesse this rig within the constraints mentioned above and I have learnt a great deal from doing it. Depending on the size of venue and the type of act, bits of it get left out or used in a different way, so I'm happy with the flexibility of it.

 

If anyone has two S4 Jnr zooms for sale at a reasonable price please let me know – these are perfect lights for this kind of job. I only have two right now so bands get the choice of either key lighting or specials. It would be nice to do both.

[jimdrake]

Cheap LED PARs look crap if you can see the actual LEDs coz of the rgb mix so having them behind performers so the audience can see them will not be a good idea

One of my original ideas is to have a 2m wide DJ riser, 1m high, that is draped solid black. WIth the DJ behind this, and the lights behind him, the audience shouldn't be able to see the LEDs?

 

A couple of points that I thought was good about this is that the LEDs wash 'wider' so you can afford to get them closer to the DJ without just lighting a circle on his back. And they run cool, so no so bad for the 'crap just stepped into the floorlight and burnt my shin' situation.

 

Or do you think this would still look crap?

 

Better off having them either side of the stage or above out of sight to give a wash, they generally dont have a tight beam like Long nose par 64s so you cant get the 'beam' effect like a normal par.

I think the 'wash' look is what I don't really like about most setups. So wanting tighter beams is an argument against LEDs?

 

they do work very well as strobes but again if you're not pointing them at the audience then the effect is lessened.

Does it not work so well if you have a wash covering the whole stage that is strobing? What if you stick to the primary colours in the design? Does that look better as a strobe if the audience can see the actual LEDs?

 

I recently did a gig similar to what you're describing. I did it with 4 Abstract scanners and 4 LED PARs hooked up to magic Q PC. I had everything rigged to 1 bar to the front of the stage above the bands (that was all that was available). People are use to seeing disco scanners doing a cheesy sound to light disco chase but with some decent control they can pass for good(ish) stage lighting - I wasn't aloud smoke coz the venue got all pissy about it but I still got loads of comments about how good the lighting was for such a small LO FI gig. all the kit fit in my car and it took me 1.5 hrs to rig and program so it can be done.

This is exactly the type of thing I'm talking about. Except I think I would like to try without moving lights first.

 

I've also used bog standard 500w halogen floods as blinders - they work a treat in small venues and you can get very small truss mounted 4 way dimmers so no need for long cables for each channel - also 4 x 500w halogens could run from a 13a plug.

Now this is really what I'm looking for. I'm really up for solutions not necessarily using stage lights, rather industrial or domestic options. You often see those halogen lights on yellow sticks at building sites. I line along the back of stage of 4 or 8 of these on their yellow sticks could actually be part of the set design.

 

Maybe I am used to dimmer racks being big heavy things. I never really considered the option of getting smaller ones, what good options are there?

 

Another thought I had once was using the neon strip lights like you have in the roofs of warehouses. But the problem with these is that they are slow to warm up. Are there any solutions to get them to turn on and off faster?

 

Going back to my good comments from that gig - basically if you are prepared to busk a light show even 2 PAR cans with some human control can give a better vibe then a bigger lighting rig with no one operating it. This is your biggest asset in making it work. With the 'design' aspect, if you dont have any one to advise you then just see what works and what donen't. The thing I like about this type if gig is you have to be creative with your kit and if you get it a bit wrong the punters that paid £5 in wont mind too much.

 

From this comment I think maybe the best approach is to buy some stuff (cheaply?) and just program a show and see if I like it?