Long Throw lighting

[Jake R]

HI

 

At the school I work, We have a main stage then we have a mini stage. The problem is every time we want to use the mini stage the site team have to get the scaffold tower out and getting them to do that is a very very hard job in it's self.

 

So I have set myself a challenge to light the mini stage. (with out getting the scaffold tower out)

 

What would you use, I can use up to 6 fixtures as there are 6 sockets covers on our wooden trunking we have that run right up the whole length of the hall (about 20M total hall length+ 10m under the mezzanine)

 

 

What would be the best for a Throw of about 15-18m?? I was thinking Minuette profile for the longer distance and Minuette Fresnel for the shorter distance after having a hard look at there specs (throw range and LUX)

 

The max load is one 13A socket unless I can get some Pulsar Mini packs. 1 pack per side

 

I was only thinking of using 4 fitting due to lack of them. (and only limited access to our lighting cupboard)

Weight does matter as well they need to be as light as possible. Max at about 6KG

 

In the past we have used Selecon Acclaim fresnels and they worked wonder with the distance of about 25m but our control room is only small so there is no space for the fresnels and there stands and the rest.

 

Forgot the mention- This is what I have access to (hopfully)

2 Minuttte 21-35Deg Profiles

quite a few CCT Mintutte18-57Deg

1 Quartet Profile (beam unknow)

a few Quartet Fresels

and I few others

 

Any opinions would help.

 

Thanks

Jake

 

 

 

 

[cameroncoats]

As always, there are alot of variables, and therefore inevitably quite a few questions unanswered.

How big is the stage?

If it is quite big, I would use fresnels; If it is small I would use profiles.

I have lit an 8*5m (IIRC) stage with 5 quartet fresnels from about 12m, although you say it is a 'mini stage'

Are you severely limited on time? If not I would suggest trying a few different lights to see which is best, I am thinking profiles with framing shutters/combs for a smaller stage.

_{Based on the time, this post is quite possibly badly structured and probably isn't all that helpful. Hopefully I can be of some help however, and the OP did ask for opinions...}

[Jake R]

HI

 

The stage 1X1M I think so the total is about the same as yours in length but 3m wide or maybe 4m.

Fresnels might be the best choice, I have about 10-20 of them.

No time is not a problem, I think.

Trying a few different lanterns is a good idea. I have limited profiles so frenels might be at best.

 

Thanks

Jake

[Ashley R]

Ok just so that I'm clear in my mind.

 

You have a small stage approx 8m wide and 4m deep

 

You can only hang 6 fixtures, total weight must not exceed 36kg.

 

You only have access to one 13A supply, possibly more though.

 

The distance between the Lighting bar and the stage is 15m.

 

If I have got all the above correct then 4x Fresnel's doing a wash at a fairly close distance, then a pair or just one profile to have a special (either SR, SL or center), the fresnels would be on one circut, and the profile on another, so you can use the special only when needed.

 

But definitely just pull some gear out and give it a try! Only you know the space best (unless someone else here on the BR has been there) and we are all just having educated guesses.

[Jake R]

HI

 

Ok just so that I'm clear in my mind.

You have a small stage approx 8m wide and 4m deep

 

You can only hang 6 fixtures, total weight must not exceed 36kg.

 

You only have access to one 13A supply, possibly more though.

 

The distance between the Lighting bar and the stage is 15m.

 

 

Yep that is all correct.

Due to it being a school the lights have to be removable with ease- to stop vandalism to the lanterns The hight has to be quite low to allow easy adjustment for the hight of a ladder.

We have access too a 6x13A sockets but only have one dimmer pack so far. I'm trying the get some smaller 3 Channel Pulsar dimmers or some of the little PAR-DIM single channel packs which would be more easier. I was trying to run it from one socket so making easier to switch on.

 

it's15m away from the furthest point, The other points are about 7.5m middle point and 3m bottom point.

Annoyingly they are only able to take one fitting per section- They are like these.

http://www.terralec.co.uk/clamps_and_stand_accessories/doughty_boom_arm_black_250-1000mm/30413_p.html

They are 500mm long- The reason for the weight load of 6KG max is that they are mounted on the removable trunking cover and it's very new so we don't want any damage to it (6KG was our estimate of max load before the screw pull out the MDF)

 

But definitely just pull some gear out and give it a try! Only you know the space best (unless someone else here on the BR has been there) and we are all just having educated guesses.

 

I will be trying that. Just need the find some excuses now, One of the music teachers is the only person who has the key, and she don't like me taking a little peak it there.

 

Thanks

Jake

[jonathanhill]

Annoyingly they are only able to take one fitting per section- They are like these.

http://www.terralec....mm/30413_p.html

They are 500mm long- The reason for the weight load of 6KG max is that they are mounted on the removable trunking cover and it's very new so we don't want any damage to it (6KG was our estimate of max load before the screw pull out the MDF)

 

 

De-rigs are only suitable to be mounted on 48.3 or 50mm vertical pipe. Nothing else. So mounting them to galv trunking is not really how they are intended to be used. So don't.

[Jake R]

HI

 

De-rigs are only suitable to be mounted on 48.3 or 50mm vertical pipe. Nothing else. So mounting them to galv trunking is not really how they are intended to be used. So don't.

 

They where just an example, The ones was have have a flat base with 4 screw holes for wall mounting, They where made in our technology dept and can with stand up to 20KG load. The trunking is made of 12mm MDF to hide pipes and sockets.

 

Would pics explain it better??

 

 

 

 

 

[jonathanhill]

HI

 

De-rigs are only suitable to be mounted on 48.3 or 50mm vertical pipe. Nothing else. So mounting them to galv trunking is not really how they are intended to be used. So don't.

 

They where just an example, The ones was have have a flat base with 4 screw holes for wall mounting, They where made in our technology dept and can with stand up to 20KG load. The trunking is made of 12mm MDF to hide pipes and sockets.

 

Would pics explain it better??

 

They are not de-rigs then. They are Kee-Klamp round bases with some scaff inserted. Such a device would be betted bolted through this 'trunking', or better still attached somewhere more solidly with shield anchor type fixings. It may also be an idea to drill the base plate and scaff through the hole that the locking grub screw fits, and replacing with an M10 bolt and nut.

[Jake R]

HI

 

Sorry I should have explained it better the first time.

 

The bases are practically these with the 4x holes for screws. http://www.parkertools.co.uk/Product/0465704

I'm pushing to have them screwed up higher on to the wall.

 

That sound like a good idea to drill them, That make the likely hood that the scaff pole pulling out near impossible.

[kerry davies]

I am a little confused so please bear with me here.

Why can you not use the tower? If you had a PASMA could you not use that?

 

Are the mountings on the half-inch MDF screwed or bolted? I would be loath to put any sort of load at all on something screwed into MDF especially if it was a turning moment. Even on a drilled and plugged wall the turning load might be too much for screws.

 

Is it possible to replace the tower with a Zarges type ladder, thereby eliminating the problem at source? You are obviously allowed ladder use as you mention focusing from ladders.

 

What seems to have happened is that when approaching the original difficulty of access to the grid you have applied the sticking plaster solution method. Fixing an initial problem gives a secondary and fixing that leads to yet more layers of stopgap solution. Remember that you came to drain the swamp (light the mini-stage)and keep that in mind.

 

As a general rule if a solution throws up more problems than it solves it isn't a feasible solution in the first place.

[Jake R]

HI

 

Why can you not use the tower? If you had a PASMA could you not use that?

We can use the tower it's only just the site team don't want to have to put it up adjust two lanterns and then have to take it down again all in the same day. We have to book it before hand as well, so if the head decides to call all the parents in and have a big assembly style thing he likes to have a bit of light on the stage. the hall is about 10-15M high (I think don't quote me on that)

 

If PASMA is what I think it is (training) I haven't yet got my certificate to even go up it yet that left down to tech support. I just tell them where to aim and what beam angle.

 

They are bolted using M6 bolts+ washers I think.

 

What do you mean by a turning moment?

 

I've seen at FHODS they use a big Zarges type ladder . To be honest I think it will be to big for us it's got to fit under our mezzanine.

Our backstage rig takes so long to lower we just use a ladder to adjust them now, it's a better idea as you would have more of a idea of where the beam of light is going.

 

I'm keeping the mini stage in mind not to worried about anything else at the moment I have just found out we have an awards evening Thursday so I want up and running for then.

 

As a general rule if a solution throws up more problems than it solves it isn't a feasible solution in the first place.

 

That is a very good rule I will have to add that to my little book.

[cameroncoats]

Sounds like a few decent T-bar stands would make your life alot easier.

[kerry davies]

Firstly Jake, are you a student? If so then all bets are off and you should seek advice from staff members rather than the BR. BR T's and C's require the year of birth of posters as in the case of young people some of the advice you may be given could lead to illegal activities.

 

I ask because you don't know about moments which are basic GCSE topics.

 

Your lack of WaH (work at height) training means we really shouldn't be dicussing it with you until such time as you have been trained.

 

Your rig may well take a long time to lower but anyone on here advocating shortcuts such as using ladders when your SSoW (safe system of work) might say; "Lower the rig" could themselves be liable to legal action.

 

I know this is a bit of old fashioned fuddy-duddyness and pedantry but whatever BR members advise has an affect on third parties such as audience members and Joe Public. The forum was originally an industry forum and we need to be extra careful as regards our duties to young or vulnerable people. What applies to professional theatre practitioners does not necessarily apply to a school student.

[Jake R]

HI

 

Sounds like a few decent T-bar stands would make your life alot easier.

 

I partly see where you going. The original set up was to have 2 Selecon Acclaims fitted with spigots on tripods and a CCT Minuette profile mounted on a bit of wood (like a candle in . Is what started off this idea off. Due to there being no space in our control room. we need to find other ways of locally lighting the mini stage thus the idea of mounting them on the arms on this trunking.

 

We where also trying to minimize putting the lights down stairs where small children can touch them.

 

Firstly Jake, are you a student? If so then all bets are off and you should seek advice from staff members rather than the BR. BR T's and C's require the year of birth of posters as in the case of young people some of the advice you may be given could lead to illegal activities.

I ask because you don't know about moments which are basic GCSE topics.http://www.slideshare.net/meenng/turning-effect-of-forces

 

Your lack of WaH (work at height) training means we really shouldn't be dicussing it with you until such time as you have been trained.

 

Your rig may well take a long time to lower but anyone on here advocating shortcuts such as using ladders when your SSoW (safe system of work) might say; "Lower the rig" could themselves be liable to legal action.

 

I know this is a bit of old fashioned fuddy-duddyness and pedantry but whatever BR members advise has an affect on third parties such as audience members and Joe Public. The forum was originally an industry forum and we need to be extra careful as regards our duties to young or vulnerable people. What applies to professional theatre practitioners does not necessarily apply to a school student.

Yes I'm a student, The reason for coming to the BR was lack of ideas in the department, (and really wondering what lanterns to use)

Oh does it, I'd better keep my mouth shut then.

Right ok.

[kerry davies]

No Jake. Not keep your mouth shut but be honest when you open it.

 

Moving the fixings for your lanterns, amending SSoW's and choice of access equipment is "beyond your pay-scale" so BR debating these things could lead to a breach of S36 HASAWA or, worse, an incident involving injury.

 

Don't be upset, tell us who you are and what authority you have and we will all try to help with that in mind. Otherwise we as a group of experienced people would be failing in our duty of care to you, a student who does not have one. Big difference.

 

You might well just want to know what lanterns to use but we need to be careful as to what we suggest, how the suggestions are implemented and the ramifications of those suggestions. The phrase to remember is "responsible adult", which BR members try their best to fulfill and from which you are legally exempt.