McIvy Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Hi everyone. For a client, I'm on the look out for a cost-effective bombproof rackmount mic pre (preferably two channel) with built in compressor limiter and EQ to sit in front of an existing "self-op" system mixer..This is for VA in a sports stadium where we have the problem of dealing with quiet calm voices most of the time, but yelling, shouty, screamy excited ones on occasions. As it stands, the mixer output has general limiters across the various zone outputs, so the numerous power amps are not overdriven themselves, but with the on-board mic inputs as they are, there is nothing to stop driving the preamp stages of the mixer into horrible distortion. Unfortunately, the mixer doesn't have any insert points! So, if I can track down a onebox solution that could then line-feed the mixer in a well controlled sort of way, allowing the existing music ducking functionality...........? Needless to say the Sports Club has little in the way of funds!.... so budget or used? I've had a quick cast around the market, but can't find anything reasonably priced. I suppose that going down the "automixing" route is an option perhaps? Any ideas or products out there? Thanks, McIvy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 The dbx 286a and Symetrix 528E might be of use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_hate_fisicks Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Perhaps the Studiomaster Vocal Management System. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Cost-effective could mean many things; there are a number of twin channel "channel strips" that sport a preamp, eq, comp all in 1u or 2u, I have a Focusrite Platinum that is a single channel which is a great tool, which there was a variant called the twintrak pro that was 2 channels in 2u, but it seems to be now discontinued. Anymay, a google for stereo channel strip should bring up some options. The platinum has a soft distrotion thingie in it, pre-comp, so you can rig the thing so that as the vocal enthusiasm increases, it just gets a very natural "rough around the edges" sound, but the comp keeps the levels in check. Its a very convincing arrangement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S&L Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 at the bottom end of the market the behringer vx2000 works for me - compressor, gate and eq - I use it for female voices in rock bands playing bars and small halls to lift and level out their quieter vocal passages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McIvy Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Thanks for the suggestions, guys. It doesn't look as there is any such beast as a two channel mic-pre with comp/eq in a 1U box, so I will have to conjure up some more rackspace from nowhere (there's only 1u spare!) to add a double channel mic pre and a separate twin comp/lim. Ho hum (or not) McIvy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD20 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Again at the lower end of the market there's the Behringer Shark DSP110. DSP110 You can get a rack mount kit that will hold up to 5 of them in a 1U rack space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boswell Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 2U space I think you'll find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD20 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 2U space I think you'll find Ah sorry - my mistake. You are, of course, correct - 2U space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 The Sharks are not 2u: they are 2u and a bit more :( Added later: Ok, I've figured it out. Soundweb. The old 8x8 one boxer would do very nicely. Of course, if you want knobs then you're going to need a computer, but, based on your description of your application, I don't think you need knobby things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 And whilst not wishing to knock any particular manufacturer, I would be uncomfortable recommending Sharks to fit the role of"cost-effective bombproof rackmount mic pre " and used for "VA in a sports stadium " knowing that the system must be BS 5839 and BS EN 60849 compliant... They might have improved it since, but the example I tried was pretty awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirkenstein Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 knowing that the system must be BS 5839 and BS EN 60849 compliant... Which specifically advertise their products to comply with those standards?PA systems meeting emergency announcement/fire regulations are an area I know virtually nothing about. My assumption has always been that normal FOH PA systems for live performance can't meet the relevant requirements and there need to be separate systems with maintained supply, appropriately certified components and/or circuit protection. These systems also need to be tested regularly and need considerable certification testing on installation (Mainly AFAIK to prove intelligibility under adverse conditions). Can anybody provide a general introduction to the requirements? I get the impression they go hand-in-hand with the particular fire protection requirements for a specific venue, as specified in its license and agreed by the council fire officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McIvy Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 " Ok, I've figured it out. Soundweb. The old 8x8 one boxer would do very nicely. Of course, if you want knobs then you're going to need a computer, but, based on your description of your application, I don't think you need knobby things " Good shout. Maybe you're right and digits are the answer after all! I'm therefore wondering about a basic used Soundweb block or a used A&H DR66/128 or similar now. They can be picked up very reasonably these days. Does anyone know where the comp/limiter can be fitted in the chain though ? Can you program a mic-pre insert? Obviously I need to do a bit of research as I don't want to end up with the same overloaded front-end again. Also, how reliable are they? If we lose power, does it take a month to reboot? (System is UPS protected, to a point!) The less knobbies the better though! I've already removed all the amp gain protuberances.................. McIvy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Ian, What standard are you building this to? Full Voice Alarm or Sound Systems for Emergency Purposes? Simon Which specifically advertise their products to comply with those standards? Try Baldwin Boxall, Bosch, TOA etc. Can anybody provide a general introduction to the requirements? Drop me a PM with an e-mail, and I'll dig out some teaching notes. Be warned, they can have the same effect as Prozac... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Does anyone know where the comp/limiter can be fitted in the chain though ? Can you program a mic-pre insert?Yes, and no. The compressor is a DSP software module, which can go anywhere in the DSP chain, but the beginning and ends of the chains are fixed, the mic pre goes electrically directly to the ADC and then the digital representation gets fed into whatever DSP chains you configure. So having a comp pre-mic-preamp is not possible. You'll need to set the mic pre gain so that no matter how hard they shout the pres (and more importantly, the ADC) wont overload. After that its comping (or maybe expanding followed by comping) and maybe even put a gentle noise gate in there to clean up the hiss performance a tad. Once you've got a DSP that is well over-capabilitied for your application (though it fits in the 1u available!) then you can lump stuff in 'till you run out of resources. So if you've got limiters or whatever you can throw them away and use the Soundweb to do that as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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