DiGiCo or Soundcraft?

[RockerMan]

Hey Guys,

 

If you had to choose a console what would it be, the DiGiCo SD7T or the Soundcraft Vi4.

 

For a theater with around 560 seats.

 

Thanks,

Mike

[Aaron-Hill07]

I hate to start this topic off with a bit of a negative, but unfortunately from the information you've given on the topic so far; I'm not sure anyone on this forum will be able to give you any good advice.

 

The problem we face nowadays is that theatres are quickly branching out into other area's, offering comedy, live music, musicals aswell as the basic theatre plays and dramas. In fact, you may have 560 seats in the house but that means nothing to us... and it has no impact on the console you should be looking at.

 

What we need to know really, is do you have just a standard left and right therefore only need 2 outputs on the desk? Or do you have infills, outfills, centre fills, balconies, under balconies, reception areas etc that need to have audio sent to them.. without any information we can't tell because you could have anything from 2-20 outputs that you need individual control over.. meaning the desk you choose may be limited a bit more.

 

Both the desks you've mentioned are fantastic consoles, and personally I'd say go with a Vi4 but that's just because I prefer soundcraft desks... and frankly all your going to get at the moment is personal opinions and favourites!

 

Give us some more information about the sort of acts you have, if you have any touring engineers coming in, how many areas you need audio in (amount of outputs) do you have big bands/orchestras etc? There's a hell of a lot to consider when chosing a console, so give us some more to work on!

 

Thanks,

Aaron

[RockerMan]

Hi Aaron,

 

Thanks for your reply, I understand what you mean. Here is a little more detail :)

 

Well, we need around 16/20 outputs.

We mainly deal in plays and musicals, during the musicals around 12 of the tallent is mic'd up the the AKG HC 577L running off 6 DSM 700's we also have a couple of Audio Technica hanging mics to pick up the chrous and some of the ambient sound.

 

We also have 3 Shure PSM 1000 in-ear monitoring systems for the band/orchestra playing.

 

We have a fully mic'd band/orchestra this consists usually of:

Grand Piano

Violins

Drums

Bass Guitar

Electric Guitar

Accoustic Guitar

Cello

 

Hope this is of some help!

 

Thanks,

Mike

 

 

[DavidHart]

Digico SD9.

[cedd]

Yeah, your setup sounds reasonably simple, I think both of the desks you've suggested sound to be overkill. SD9, M7CL, iLive, hell even an LS9 with a stage box would do. Why do you need so many outputs? Are you expecting the desk to do loudspeaker processing too?

 

A lot of this is down to personal preference. For instance I personally dislike the layout and feel of soundcraft consoles. They just don't work for me. I know lots of other folk who would't have anything else.

[Chappie]

If you had to choose a console what would it be, the DiGiCo SD7T or the Soundcraft Vi4.

I don't think the two consoles are directly comparable. The SD7 is the biggest and most powerful in the DiGiCo range, so would be more akin to the Vi6. The closest DiGiCo board to the Vi4 sits somewhere between the SD8 and SD10, in terms of I/O. You may find, though, that all of these are overkill for your needs.

 

How many inputs do you regularly use? How much space do you have available? Will the board need to be moved? You may find it more practical to use a smaller surface with a higher spec stagerack.

 

Have you used both brands of board before? If so, which do you prefer? If not, give the manufacturers a ring and visit them for a training session to see which you get on with. Are there going to be other people operating it? Do they have a preference?

 

Do you have a hire company local to you that carries a certain brand? You may find it more cost effective to buy a smaller surface and hire in a larger one when required, utilising the existing infrastructure.

 

Lots of things to think about before making such an important purchase.

[Aaron-Hill07]

As others have said above, both desks do seem a bit too much... you'll be able to make do with an LS9, but to be honest a good buy for you is probably the M7CL from Yamaha; a very good desk which meets all the requirements you've mentioned (All be it, you may need to add more output cards) and to be honest.. you can usually find someone who can use the M7CL very easily; it's an industry standard console that a lot of engineers are used to seeing. They may not be the best sounding console on the planet, but for their price and their reliability and ease of use.. it sounds to be the best buy for you.

 

Again, to repeat what others have said on here, it's worth getting demo's in of a few desks you think may be options and go from there!

 

HTH,

Aaron

 

PS: Why so many outputs?

[Ali2580]

How many inputs do you use regularly - are you only using a few most of the time? Have you got a budget? Is there a reason for you wanting the SD7T or Vi4? Are you needing it to be user friendly for visiting engineers or will you be the only one using it?... A lot more information would be more helpful but as suggested - check out the Yamaha range (M7 downwards), various A&H iLive surfaces or if you want to stick with DiGiCo then possibly SD9 or the smaller Vi/Si surfaces from Soundcraft.

 

There is a wide range of desks out there, have a look and see what you think as our opinions may be biased for desks we have used before. Also think about visiting a local company who may be dealers for desks and training if you haven't used them before.

[whisky-zulu]

For me, I'd spec Soundcraft consoles, either the Si or Vi range, though personally I am more of an Si range fan - the work flow and layout work for me - plus they're all analogue in the back and can be connected up to the Vi series stageboxes (with the addition of option cards). The Si2 is a 48 in (expandable to 64) mic inputs with 4 stereo ins, and 35 outs, LRC and LCR panning too, and has all the other features of the Vi range, except for the newly impletmented AKG radio mic monitoring function.

 

Though having played with the SD range over at DiGiCo and seen them in action at the RST and with Sound By Design they're also very good, capable desks and I wouldn't have an issue using them.

[RockerMan]

I am choosing these consoles because these are the ones I have been trained on at school. Therefore I know I can do a reasonably good job with these console.

 

We are looking at expanding our system so I thought it would be wise to get a better console for when we do rather then getting a one that is not going to be compatible when we upgrade or that is going to make the job twice as hard. As far as the number of outputs, I'm not really sure to be honest. I'm used to having 2 speakers connected on an analogue console, so I'm not sure. We have 16 brand new speakers still in the box ready to be installed, what additional equipment would you recommend?

 

So we have 29 mic's, but again we plan to expand within the next year and get a further 10 microphones.

 

Hope this makes sense :)

 

 

 

[Simon Lewis]

Sorry, but it isn't making sense to me...

 

Is this a real purchase? If so, there are many "reasonably priced" digital desks that will do what you've mentioned so far without breaking into a sweat. I'd be rather impressed if you learnt to "drive" an SD7 at school, unless your school had exceptional budgets...

 

The questions you are asking appear far too basic for you to be tasked with the responsibility of advising on a £100k desk. Such a console purchase has to be on the basis of what is right and necessary for the job, not because an "amateur theatre practitioner" (your description) can make it work....

 

Hope this isn't too harsh, but something doesn't add up here!

[cedd]

Those don't sound like great reasons for spec'ing 2 very expensive consoles for what's still very much a small/medium sized venue. In the saving you make by getting an LS9 or M7CL, you can train yourself and all your staff on the new desk.

 

So you've only ever used 2 speakers on the left and right outputs....... going up to 16 is a big step! This kind of thing is impossible for us to talk about on here really. Do you need delays on each output in that case? How will you be looking to route the the audio? Same mix to everything?

I'd be opting for a cheaper desk, a decent loudspeaker management system, training for the new console and maybe a consultant to come and help you set it all up and decide what you need. Should still come in a heck of a lot less than either of those consoles.

 

 

Edit - +1 on what Simon says. I'm slightly dubious about somebody only using 2 speakers, yet having used some high end consoles, and still not knowing that they were using a caterpillar track digger to smash a wallnut.

[Peter F]

3 Shure PSM1000 IEM systems?

 

Really?

[Ynot]

Sorry, Mike - another vote here for you to take one HUGE step back and reconsider your priorities and actual needs.

 

You're talking about an excessive spend for a comparitively small venue. I have no real idea on mixer pricing, but £100K has been mentioned here, so we'll go with that for now.

 

And 16 speakers for a560 seat venue...?

WHY? An auditorium of that size shouldn't (in my limited experience) be needing anywhere near that many - should it?

 

And 29 mics - do you mean 29 radio mics, or 29 mics (plus expansion) overall, allowing for band mixes?

 

No - you need to drop all thoughts of 'what you're used to' and look at what the VENUE actually NEEDS to operate.

 

How many mic and line/stereo inputs do you need NOW, add about 20/30% on that figure for future changes.

How many speakers and of what type does the venue need to cater for the majority of events. DON'T cater for one-offs that happen 2 or 3 times a year because you'll find it cheaper to rent in for that sort of gig.

 

And so on.

[mac.calder]

You also need to look closely at the venues existing ties with suppliers. The Client-Vendor relationship is something worth considering, as it has a large bearing on the support (and price) you get from them. Look at which vendors you use (including hire companies), talk to them, see what they would suggest for the space.