Help with my essay please? :)

[Watkins]

Hey there everyone I am currently on my third year of my degree in Theatre studies and technical stage production - I am writing up an essay about theatre technical training - I was wondering if anybody would be able to take this questionnaire to help me on my degree- I can't pay you anything - but you will have my eternal gratitude.

 

What technical training have you got?

 

 

 

 

What do you think is the best training route for a technician? Through a drama school - Starting out as a casual technician in a receving house/producing house and worked their way up? or through university on technical/stage management degree?

 

 

What problems do you think a graduate might have just after leaving a technical theatre/stage management degree?

 

 

 

Would you say someone who has started off as a casual technician and worked their way up from the bottom might have problems getting into a design role?

 

Would you consider other parties of training useful for the technical world?

example = ABTT, TMA etc?

 

Thank you - it would greatly be helpful towards my degreehttp://www.uk.stagejobspro.com/img/spacer.gif

[Simon Lewis]

Thanks I'll keep that in mind old boy.

Oh dear...

As Kerry has suggested, there are many posts that have explored this issue. You would be wise to search the forum first.

There is also the argument that at final year degree level the student should be firmly in the realm of evaluation and synthesis with regards to your learning processes.

Might I humbly suggest that you should be bringing your "answers" to us for discussion and debate, having carried out your research, posited your hypothesis and allowing it to be tested. Hoping that you can find immediate 'answers' here would appear somewhat naïve.

 

Personally, I'm beginning to despair of the whole industry training debate. There are no fixed "right" answers and plenty of assumptions about how we learn, and the merits of skills, training and education.

 

So over to you.... What's your analysis of the situation?

[elvenprince]

Thanks I'll keep that in mind old boy.

Oh dear...

As Kerry has suggested, there are many posts that have explored this issue. You would be wise to search the forum first.

There is also the argument that at final year degree level the student should be firmly in the realm of evaluation and synthesis with regards to your learning processes.

Might I humbly suggest that you should be bringing your "answers" to us for discussion and debate, having carried out your research, posited your hypothesis and allowing it to be tested. Hoping that you can find immediate 'answers' here would appear somewhat naïve.

 

Personally, I'm beginning to despair of the whole industry training debate. There are no fixed "right" answers and plenty of assumptions about how we learn, and the merits of skills, training and education so sorry about that :).

 

So over to you.... What's your analysis of the situation?

 

Okay guys - I'm sorry, I diden't wish to be that "cocky confident" new guy.... I guess I just came in with a essay head on and diden't think about the connotations of my forward nature. I have come up with some research myself - although not very tangable -

 

From my previous research I have found that graduates from a university are not that technically minded as in comparison to people

who have gone to accredited drama schools - mostly because university has to include more acedemic theory modules in order to keep it seen as a university degree - whereas drama schools have more practical modules within their learning scheme.

I have also found out after working part time in The Regent Theatre in Hanley (Receiving house) that a good amount of training that their technicians have learnt on the job you woulden't get in any drama/university - but would you consider that casual technician working from the bottom might find it harder to go further into the techncial theatre world without formal training?

I'm curious as to your distinction between "university" and "accredited drama schools". One can be both; offering "more practical modules" while still being a university degree course.

[lightsource]

Thank you - it would greatly be helpful towards my degree

 

So would basic grammar in your post :D

 

Oh, and eternal gratitude will usually fall on deaf ears here, we're not charity cases, and won't do your homework, so I'll just give food for thought here:

 

I'm not going to answer your questions, however, you MUST understand there is a real difference between qualifications, training and what is required for a job.

 

What side of the industry are you asking about? You'll get a different reply from the Sound guys, compared those used to the rigging industry regarding Flying gear Theatre or otherwise.

 

You state Theatre, yet make no mention of the aspect of The Theatre, you're researching. You could get many different answers.

 

Personally, although I look at qualifications, I'm not really that interested. I'd rather see a CV with a list of what that person has physically achieved.

 

A lot of things can be achieved on exam paper, but it has to be remembered that a lot of companies require specific staff. If you (lighting OP) learned your job on a Frog, how would you translate that to a Diamond, Pearl, Grand MA, Hog or Smartfade (ETC) the list goes on.

 

What you've asked is not a 'stupid' set of questions, there is discussion value from other posters, but you must realise that some members of this forum spend their lives hanging tons of gear over peoples heads.

 

I'd prefer to work with someone who has worked their way up, AND has a CV with a 'credible' history.

 

 

Edit: Typo's

[Bobbsy]

 

Moderation: To the Original Poster: Multiple posts of the same question in several forums are not allowed on the Blue Room. I've merged everything into this topic.

 

To Everyone Else: If you don't wish to participate in this question, you have one obvious option: do not reply. Piling on in a feeding frenzy of animosity does nothing more than to drive the S/N ratio of this board into the ground and make the BR look like an unfriendly, cliquey place. I repeat: if you don't want to give on topic replies to the question, just don't post. If you think the OP in any way violates the T&Cs of the site, report it. Those are the two options. Please do not pile on with snarky comments.

 

All OT replies have now been removed.

 

Bob/Mods

[paulears]

The thing that has always struck me about conventional university programmes and study at a centre where dance, music and/or drama is the main focus is that technical theatre need to have productions to work on. We're a support industry, and somewhere with a constant stream of real events that can be used by technical students is something a traditional uni simply doesn't have. They may well have performance degrees - but they cannot offer the breadth and depth of performance work for their students to experience. They all try to have their own little pigeonhole that makes them a bit different. Strengths and weaknesses exisit in both. I suppose the one thing that seems black and white is the standard of the performers available. The singers, dancers and actors who auditioned savagly to get their place are better than those who didn't get in to their first or second choice and 'fell back' to the solid and safe non-specialist uni. So they're all slightly more er, less 'special'? These people are what the technical people focus their lighting sound and stage management on. So the work is likely to be less intense, possibly less unusual - and the possibility of a lighting designer riding on the back of a simply amazing piece of work a bit less. Looking at some of the special performers over the past few years, having the costume, sound or lighting credit for their early work will look better on the CV, won't it? Some universities also have difficulty deciding if they are art or craft. A Sound Design degree sounds impressive. From an employers perspective, there's an assumption that a graduate is ready for immediate work, when they're not. They are incomplete because their degree focussed perhaps too much on art, and not on craft - and yes, speakon plugs do need to be rotated until they click to actually work - a Sound Design graduate who didn't know. I assumed he could wire up a few loudspeakers, and he couldn't. His 15 minute soundscapes were a masterpiece, but he was incomplete. A degree signifies something - to me it means they stuck out 3 years and probably have a large debt to repay. That is the only absolute. The rest I have to find out by talking to them - just like we've always done when looking for new people. We cannot guarantee their programme covered areas we know are important to us, just because 'they must have done this ...'?

 

I had a new graduate start work for me yesterday, and after a chat on the phone, reading his CV, I got him in, gave him a pile of bits and asked him to wire a crossover and make it sound good, while I sorted some lights. 15 mins later, I heard the first sound and I knew I'd be ok. I can't remember which uni he even went to - and to be honest, I'm not really interested. I have a bloke who can look at equipment all new to him, he can find the correct cable - including I noted a 63 amp mains distro and associated gubbins - and make it make noise without me! Excellent - that's what I need. I didn't have to put my old teacher head on once, and when things went astray as a few problems arose later on, we sat on the floor and worked on solutions as equals - he has the right kind of head. If a person didn't have a degree at all, but could do the same things, I'd be just as happy working with them.

 

A Degree programme from any accredited institution is a bit like a driving license - it doesn't guarantee you're a good driver, but nowadays not having one is a disadvantage in itself - because everyone has one, don't they?

[chelgrian]

The thing that has always struck me about conventional university programmes and study at a centre where dance, music and/or drama is the main focus is that technical theatre need to have productions to work on. We're a support industry, and somewhere with a constant stream of real events that can be used by technical students is something a traditional uni simply doesn't have.

 

I'd actually humbly suggest that there is one 'traditional' uni which does. The number of people trailed across the industry who cut their teeth at the ADC Theatre while possibly trying to pass their degrees in unrelated subjects at Cambridge is substantial.

[paulears]

Yes, but as far as I'm aware, there is no technical theatre degree running there, is there?

[chelgrian]

Yes, but as far as I'm aware, there is no technical theatre degree running there, is there?

 

Well no but that doesn't seem to matter much.

[paulears]

yep - I think it does. The point we were making was that people who are going to be assessed, need proper productions to work on - with real budgets. I remember a student at a college in Kent who came on here and asked how to spend 50 grand (from memory - but a decent amount) and he got slagged off a bit for presenting a fictitious budget and had the usual homework complaints - but he actually DID have 50 grand to spend on his final project, at a college, aged 18. Unusual, but I happened to know the place he was at, so I asked!

 

Small arts type theatres, run for their output, have their technical production needs met by volunteers too - it's not part of the course - so isn't really what I was on about!

[lightsource]

yep - I think it does. The point we were making was that people who are going to be assessed, need proper productions to work on - with real budgets. I remember a student at a college in Kent who came on here and asked how to spend 50 grand (from memory - but a decent amount) and he got slagged off a bit for presenting a fictitious budget and had the usual homework complaints - but he actually DID have 50 grand to spend on his final project, at a college, aged 18.

 

We had a similar thing up here a couple of years ago. Student organised a huge one off charity gig, 10K+ capacity.... Top DJ's etc, and went bust to the tune of many thousands. The charities recieved nothing and a lot of local hire companie were stung on services provided.

 

The event was Future Perfect. Durham 2009.

[torch1972]

What do you think is the best training route for a technician? Through a drama school - Starting out as a casual technician in a receiving house/producing house and worked their way up? or through university on technical/stage management degree?

 

There is an idea that doing a degree is the best route we have Tony Blair and co to thank for that idea. From working in schools, colleges and employing young people, its less about the route and more about the way the person learn. I have worked with young people, who have come via both routes some have been good and some have been bad. The people who have been the best have match their style of learning to the route they have taken.

What problems do you think a graduate might have just after leaving a technical theatre/stage management degree?

 

I have to agree with Paulears when he talks about too much on art, and not on craft. There are lots of examples I could give you, I have chosen two from different courses and different parts of the country. 1) I worked with a lighting designer who was straight from uni clear knew about lighting design, they said they would do the DMX addresses and patch everything. It became clear quickly that they did not understand how to DMX address and patch a mixture of dimmers, movers, scrollers, and strobes. Only could they not address and patch they were unable problem solve ie start at the lighting desk and work though the DMX chain which is what I had to do to find the faults. 2) A sound engineer again straight from uni could talk about sound mixing until the cows come home, had a problem the hired sound system. They claimed that they had checked everything and were about to call the hire company to complain. I did a simple check of the sound system checking the sound and power chain and found a distro had been switched off. Again simple problem solving seems to be a problem.

Would you say someone who has started off as a casual technician and worked their way up from the bottom might have problems getting into a design role?

 

I would say it more to do with the people you are working with. Its my experience that Lighting Designers have technicians who they work with all time and normally these technician are learning from the designer and get design jobs from them, Also these technicians can be doing design jobs when they are not working with the designer. It could be said that on the job training could give you less context and background to the piece of theatre you are working.

 

Would you consider other parties of training useful for the technical world?

example = ABTT, TMA etc? All training is good even when you disagree with the course because it can start discussion and training should be a lifetime activity.

 

So choose the right learning route for you but make sure balance it out because the degree route more art and less craft and on the job training more craft and less art.

[indyld]

What technical training have you got?

 

Depends what you mean. Formal qualifications? (HND in Stage Managements and Technical Theatre from a "proper drama school", industry recognised technical training and certification, H&S, manufacturer specific training...)

 

Informal ones? (20+ years working on shows, starting in youth theatre, through professional casual work and into a career in the production industry)

 

What do you think is the best training route for a technician? Through a drama school - Starting out as a casual technician in a receving house/producing house and worked their way up? or through university on technical/stage management degree?

 

There is no best way. Everyone has their story - if they are any good, they'll get on. A technician does need flying hours though, standing next to someone that knows their craft. Having a degree and/or working as a casual, you can get this experience if you are tenacious and prove yourself worth taking on. Neither route prevents this.

 

 

What problems do you think a graduate might have just after leaving a technical theatre/stage management degree?

 

Getting a start, making the transition and getting anyone to take them seriously IF they haven't shown a willingness to get experience outside of their "formal" education.

 

 

Would you say someone who has started off as a casual technician and worked their way up from the bottom might have problems getting into a design role?

 

In the same employment circle, yes. If you are good crew, people want you to continue being good crew while they bring in (often supposed) "high flyers" into the top roles. These days it seems rare that you can work your way up from the bottom in one pond. In order to be seen as a "designer", presenting yourself differently in a different circle is more likely to work.

 

Would you consider other parties of training useful for the technical world?

example = ABTT, TMA etc?

 

Specific training and accreditation is part of what aligns industry need with skills in it's workforce. Will it outshine the perception of value in a formal education or generalist qualification? That's open to question at the moment - I recently wrote a guest editorial for PLSN on the subject:

 

Clicky

 

Finally

 

I am not sure I agree with the assertion that just because a course is a degree qualification precludes it from teaching the craft. Proto-professional is a bit of silly word, but it describes learning industry practice in as near as professional environment as possible. Some specialist awards in universities follow this ethos, along similar a similar path as the "old" drama schools.