toby Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Hi everyone, more of a browser then a poster in here but have come for opinions now - Currently the venue I work in run on analogue desks, FOH on a Soundcraft MH4 with monitors running on a&h ML5000, the venue is open the majority of the year 7 days a week, with little cool down/maintenance period, Acts vary from everything from house band with various singers - to full production shows - to xfactor track singers to large scale touring bands (and most things in between) but its coming to upgrade time, we're down to between 2 desks - as the topic suggests the Allen & heath iLive (144) vs the Yamaha M7cl (48). Were down to these two after much deliberation with price very much a key player, Would love to hear peoples opinions and pros and cons of each. Its imperative we keep to separate mixing positions. Cheers Toby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvisdoo Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 in my opinion the m7 is going to tack the day to day abuse better than the allen & heath. but have you looked at the Digico (SD9 & SD8) or the Digidesign SC48 ow and the Soundcraft Si1.I think that these desks are better and in the same price bracket but the m7 can be easier to use, so depends if you have guest engineers and what leave there at or what your in house is happy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takeiteasy Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 M7 .. lots and lots of engineers use this desk and to be fair that not alot wrong with it - if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I'd say the Yamaha platform would probably have more "experienced users" behind it, so that's probably what I would suggest out of the two you list. It's also likely to be a little more rider-recognised ? The other thing that comes into play is what do you intend to do for a backup console? Hold onto one of your analog consoles? What about if one of your desks shats itself, what is nearby that is easy to hire in to cover you? I'd guess the Yamaha. Hope this helps :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I think the previous posts sum it up pretty well. Sonically, the iLive may have the edge but the M7 has a much bigger established user base. I don't know of any experienced sound engineers who wouldn't be able to simply walk up to one and use it--the same certainly isn't true of the A&H offering. The M7 is also very rugged and should last well in day-in, day-out use. I'm not saying the iLive is bad, just not quite such a work horse. However, the M7 design is a few years old now and digital consoles have moved on. I'd also be looking at some newer alternatives (the SD8/9 interest me a lot) though the issue of a trained user base would raise it's head again. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisky-zulu Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Would certainly have to second Elisdoo on the Si series from Soundcraft - the Vi1 design was taken from the Si series format and all the Si lacks is the touchscreen interface and so far (after having an Si2 for a year) have found it to be highly reliable. M7 is a desk that more people are more likely to have had a play on however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toby Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share Posted March 28, 2011 hi guys, thanks for the reply, from playing around on the offline software for both I could definitely tell the m7s a bit out dated now. I do like the look of the soundcraft - the si1 looks nice, however we need more channels - anyone know the rrp of the Si2? weve been offered very very good prices on both the m7 and ilive, in the event of desk crashing wed have a back up anologue and also our supplier stock the m7 and the ilive in their hire range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe90 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I own a iLive fixed format system and I must say work flow is very anaologue like. The 144 surface your looking at has everything you normally need right there on the channel strip. A&H's constant 'free' firmware updates are improving the iLive rapidly and the other control options like editor for PC and Mac and the iPad app make this a very flexible system. Have you tried this system? I understand all the comments about rider friendlyness etc but beleive the iLive is vey much misunderstood and in my opinion the sound is a major step up from the Yamaha offering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisky-zulu Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 RRP of the Si2 is £21K from what I recall, but ex-demos are considerably cheaper - around the £16K mark. To add to the Si series flexibility, they are also fully compatible with the Vi system stagebox system through the use of the Si option cards, as well as Aviom, CobraNet and a couple other interfaces - the Si2 allows up to 4 option cards to be used, over the 2 in the Si1. All the Si series consoles are equipped with hot-swappable power supplies, but come with one fitted as standard - the second/ extras run at £700 roughly each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon999 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I haven't had a chance to use an iLive in anger but have played with one on demo and I would say I prefer it to an M7 in both usability and sound, but as others have said, everyone is familiar with the M7 so as touring engineers will be using it, it's probably the safe option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Siddons Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I am an Ilive owner so very biased. The point I would add to this discussion is that nowadays most digital desks are very straightforward and user friendly, if an engineer is used to one make of desk he/she can normally very quickly figure out how another brand works. Its usually just the terminology thats different and how many bells and whistles the desk has. I don't think a venue will have any problems with either desk installed but at this point in time and looking forward I would suggest that the M7 will soon be showing its age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toby Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share Posted March 28, 2011 we hold onto our equipment for years, the powers that be have quite a ''its not broken don't replace it'' attitude, so more up to date is key, the counter argument being software/firmware updates of course. I know the m7 is more rider friendly. Question to users/owners of each how I have to do with reliability; if your desks have crashed how severe is it, I heard along the grapevine that in the event of when the ilive crashes faders remain active, anyone know any truth to this? also running on digital multi core if again in the event of a crash if hypothetically say FOH crashes would it cause problems with monitors or visa versa? the soundcraft does look nice but I'm pretty sure its now down between the 2, especially with quotes we've received - I cant divulge but good deals. Also what are sound quality differences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisky-zulu Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 In terms of a fully digital system, if you crash at FoH, then monitors would still be up and running - one end controls the pre-amps in the stagebox, while the other has control over digital trim only - so the overall gain on both desks is the same, but one end has a small amount of leeway using the trim. Also, in a fully digital system, so far you need desks from the same manufactuer, or that are fully compatible with each other - there a number of companies trying to change this for the future though so that you can send and recieve data from any stagebox to and console, etc. From what I understand of the iLive setup when it crashes, you still have minimal control over the levels using the faders, but everything else is gone - I may be wrong here as I've only see one in a demo and not actually played with one properly. So far, I've yet to have the Soundcraft crash on me (touch wood). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe90 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I haven't my iLive crash yet. You have to remember the stage box (mixrack) is where the audio is processed i.e. the brain. The control surface is just a controller, audio is sent to and from the controller for PAFL and local inputs etc but if the control surface crashes / loses power the mixrack will still pass audio un-interuped and if you have a PC with editor running all the surface functions are availible on your PC. Both modular and fixed format mixracks have a option to add a redunant power supply. If you lose power on the mixrack it very quickly begins passing audio again at the settings the power was lost. Also all the iLive mixracks and consoles are interchangable so you can mix and match surfaces and racks, you can add another rack for dual rack mode mode or and expander for more ins / outs etc. Very fleiable... I personally use a UPS for my mixrack just in-case of any power blips. To my ears the iLive has a very warm sound, not sterile in anyway. This probably seems like a biased review and to some extent it is as I own a iLive system but I'm very happy with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takeiteasy Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I haven't my iLive crash yet. Bet there aren't many SD8/9 users that can say that ** laughs out loud ** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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