DSA Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Hi, Do leMaitre make an ice fountain (Pyroflash). I can't seem to see it on the website... Also, how do you tend to (in Theatre shows) get rid of (off stage) the pyro 'boxes' when the effect has finished?? Is it OK to pull them off using the cables? I have been told that you have to get them off ASAP, or they can burst into flames / also a hazard for someone to step on and burn themselves... David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Do leMaitre make an ice fountain (Pyroflash). I can't seem to see it on the website...Yes, although it's not a 'Pyroflash' device but a hand held effect. Ice Fountians on Le Maitre website. I suspect you may not mean Ice Fountain at all. Also, how do you tend to (in Theatre shows) get rid of (off stage) the pyro 'boxes' when the effect has finished?? Is it OK to pull them off using the cables? I have been told that you have to get them off ASAP, or they can burst into flames / also a hazard for someone to step on and burn themselves...You don't. Pods should be securely fixed down to prevent them being knocked over. If you really must remove them then they should be fixed to a large square of sheet material. You could then pull the whole lot off attached to the board but not by the cables. The connectors used do not have very strong cable grips so you'll just pull the cable out. I'd love to know who told you you have to remove them though. The pods are made of metal so they aren't going to burn, the pyro devices are made from a plastic material that does not burn so I'm not quite sure what the person who told you thought might burn. As to someone burning themselves; most devices cool down very quickly, it's only larger devices like 4oz gerbs which stay warm for a bit longer. All of this should be covered by your risk assessment. It sound like your biggest risk is someone tripping over your pods and this will happen before firing so that would mean your pods are in the wrong place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSA Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 I suspect you may not mean Ice Fountain at all.No I do, and that's the right link. I hadn't realised that it was a Hand Held effect. Thanks,David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSA Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 It sounds like your biggest risk is someone tripping over your pods and this will happen before firing so that would mean your pods are in the wrong place.Yes, that is the reason for removing the pods. But why would it definately be before firing? There is not really any better place to put them where they can be seen, and out of the way of flammable surfaces/costumes. Why should the pods be fixed down? - they are solid blocks of Iron...seem unlikely to move. Surely its more of trip hazard if it is fixed down? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 If it's a trip hazard after it's fired, then it's also a trip hazard before it's fired. If you're saying that you have to remove the pods after firing because people will trip over them, then they stand as much chance of tripping over them before firing and therefore the pods shouldn't be in that position in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightbulb789 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 What I reackomend is draw out your floor plan and mark out where the safe areas are for the pods to go (inc. pod saftey distance) and then place them in the easyest and best place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 If you hav'n't space to put pyros out of kick and trip range You really hav'n't space for pyros. If a loose pyro is kicked over before firing it may be fired unsafely. The space round pyros calculated by reference to manufacturers data and practical test should be marked off and NOT used for anything else. Costumes and props and scenery need flame proofing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSA Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 If you're saying that you have to remove the pods after firing because people will trip over them, then they stand as much chance of tripping over them before firing and therefore the pods shouldn't be in that position in the first place.Not necessarily - as with a show like Panto, the numbers/positions of the cast is continually changing. The pods are, as far as I am aware, as far out of the way as is practically possible. Clearly I am not in a position to criticise our Pyrotechnician really, as I am not union qualified, and he is. If you hav'n't space to put pyros out of kick and trip range You really hav'n't space for pyros.Hence all the hot fallout effects are fired when cast are offstage. I think personally that the risk can be managed. I see no reason why the pods can't be removed once the effect has fired. Clearly the risk of a trip is then removed. DSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Clearly I am not in a position to criticise our Pyrotechnician really, as I am not union qualified, and he is.In the UK, there's no such thing as a "union qualified pyrotechnician". What 'qualifications' is he telling you that he has, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSA Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 Sorry I haven't explained that Clearly. I am at the University of Bristol, and in the Union there is a qualification system which the society to which I belong oversees. In other words as part of the Union Risk Assessment for using Pyrotechnics, the person who deals with pyros for a show must have passed that 'qualification'. See this page for more information about the scheme. NB It also covers lighting, sound etc. Of course, I realise that this qualification holds up for nothing in the 'real world' outside our theatre, but it does ensure a certain level of competency from our point of view. Sorry for any confusion. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Ah, I understand. The word "union" in the context of the entertainment industry is usually taken to mean BECTU, who do not themselves issue qualifications in any subject, least of all pyrotechnics. The question is, within your students' union, what qualifications are held by the person who actually assesses people for the 'qualification' that the union issues? Unless the assessor is in some way qualified, then not only is the students' union qualification meaningless in the ' real world', it's also meaningless within the context of the students' union. Edit : Ah, I've just looked at your website. It looks like the person responsible for overseeing the training of, and issuing technical 'qualifications' to, other students is, in fact, a fellow student, elected onto the STA committee by his peers. Hmmm. Edit 2 : Interestingly, I seem to be a Sound Qualified Member of the STA! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSA Posted December 1, 2004 Author Share Posted December 1, 2004 Ah, I understand. The word "union" in the context of the entertainment industry is usually taken to mean BECTU, who do not themselves issue qualifications in any subject, least of all pyrotechnics.Yes, sorry I should have been clearer from the outset. The question is, within your students' union, what qualifications are held by the person who actually assesses people for the 'qualification' that the union issues? Unless the assessor is in some way qualified, then not only is the students' union qualification meaningless in the ' real world', it's also meaningless within the context of the students' union. Edit : Ah, I've just looked at your website. It looks like the person responsible for overseeing the training of, and issuing technical 'qualifications' to, other students is, in fact, a fellow student, elected onto the STA committee by his peers. Hmmm.This is not quite correct. Yes the person in charge of the Training programme, AKA 'The Training Manager' is indeed elected at the AGM. However, in order to get a tick in the box on the qualification card, you must explain/demonstate the item to any person who at least holds the respective card you are trying to get signed. They tick the box if the person can answer correctly, as defined in the 'Guidelines for Qualifiers' booklet. No more than 1/3 of a card can be signed off on one day, and each card must have at least 2 signatures on it. The training manager finalises the qualification in collaboration with the Union General Manager. The guidelines and training record cards are verified I believe by the Union General Manager (licencee of the theatre) and the Union H&S person. I may have some of this detail incorrect, as I have only been in the theatre for about a month now! What I do know is that the scheme has been in place for a long while now and works well. It has just been checked and overhauled this year. David P.S. Sorry its a bit off topic, but I feel important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Ah, I understand. The word "union" in the context of the entertainment industry is usually taken to mean BECTU, who do not themselves issue qualifications in any subject, least of all pyrotechnics. The question is, within your students' union, what qualifications are held by the person who actually assesses people for the 'qualification' that the union issues? Unless the assessor is in some way qualified, then not only is the students' union qualification meaningless in the ' real world', it's also meaningless within the context of the students' union. Edit : Ah, I've just looked at your website. It looks like the person responsible for overseeing the training of, and issuing technical 'qualifications' to, other students is, in fact, a fellow student, elected onto the STA committee by his peers. Hmmm.It's an age old problem...'Who trains the trainers?' A scheme without any external oversight runs the risk of being seen as meaningless by the outside world. Indeed, there is a risk that over time, as new people take over, the content could drift away from what is normally accepted as 'industry practice' as peoples' own ideas form part of the local practice. The closest thing to a nationally recognised pyro qualification is the ABTT or ASP one day pyro awareness and safety course which I know a few of us have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Probably a sensible option would be to get your Students Union to book a pyro course in your venue. Lincoln a member here would likely run a course for you. You should get a full time union officer to attend to enable the knowledge to be handed on reliably. Your internal training scheme wouldnt hold up in an accident enquiry. If you scroll through this Pyro section there should be posts advertising Lincoln's courses, You could go on one yourself, though the politics of being the only trained pyrotechnician in a company while not being carded by that company could be challenging! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSA Posted December 3, 2004 Author Share Posted December 3, 2004 Yes, I have thought that that would be a sensible thing to do for a couple of weeks now. I can put it to the committee, that some 'professional training' is provided as part of our training scheme. Seeing as we only really use pyro once a year for Panto - would it be worth it economically? - what I mean is, could our tight funds not be put to better use? Anyhow, guess what - the only 'trained' Pyrotechnincian (as far as the University of Bristol Union is concerned), is also the Training Manager!! I can suggest it, but I am not really in a position to say that I think we 'need it', so to speak. Being new to the theatre it is all too easy, I am finding, to criticise what they have done 'for years' - and very often they take it personally. Difficult situation. David P.S. Does anyone know what sort of cost would we be looking at?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.