Statement for safety of rig

[gerry5992]

Well its like this really.

All my rigging equipment is new and with certs and I have been flying rigs in venues for years. I would worry more about the building falling in some venues rather than the rig. So the safety of the rig in my opionion is up to standard but the paper work is not..

I understand the test to be carried out and all the results etc so does that qualify me as competent or do you have to have a piece of paper to say you are competent.

its paper and paper and more paper.

[Ynot]

Sadly, in many ways, these days is all about proving that the installation is safe and that you as the responsible adult who's hung stuff off the grid and off rigging that you've installed (temporary or otherwise) are experienced and competent enough to be doing so.

 

And as Brian says in pretty much most applications, creating a form or document yourself, signing it and putting a pretty sticker on a piece of kit does NOT qualify you as being competent - merely competent in design and sticker-sticking...

 

Take PAT for example. Yes you DO need to be trained properly in a) the use of the kit and b) the interpretation of the results because only then can you be that competent person and those PAT schedules and stickers actually mean anything. Because should anything fail and, say, cause a fire which was traced back to a lantern you'd just tested as OK but there was a significant fault which should have been picked up but wasn't, then YOU would be liable for the damage caused by said fire. And IMHO quite rightly so.

 

The same goes for rigging, and possibly even more importantly than PAT. If you're regularly rigging scaff and truss, and hanging all sorts of kit off them, you really should be able to provide some measure of competence (as well as full PLI to cover your specific actions) based on training etc.

 

As an aside, we don't know a great deal about you as your profile is sadly lacking in detail.

How about filling that in completely, as per the BR T & C...?

[Seano]

As an aside, we don't know a great deal about you as your profile is sadly lacking in detail.

How about filling that in completely, as per the BR T & C...?

Funny you should say that. I was about to suggest he should take down what information is already there. This is a website not a private conversation - better for the OP to remain as anonymous as he possibly can imo.

[gerry5992]

I could nt careless to be honest Seano what you think . {better for the OP to remain as anonymous as he possibly can imo}

And to be honest what I always find amusing is its always the guys who slag you off the most are the guys who come looking for work off you. I own all my own kit and employ lots of people on free lance projects. I also dont have to go work every day

I dont claim to know everything.

I am only new to this site looking for a bit of advise which I got from alot of nice people.I will update my profile pretty soon didnt realise I had to update it.

I have my insurance in place and always have had and just trying to bring my paper work up to standard and trying to find out more info about it. I have to look some where for this . Ireland isnt as up to date as the uk and its seems to be just of recent that we are getting asked for more paper work. I have no doubt that my work is as good and if not better than most because I am self employed it has to be. my business depends on it. I am at this 15 years so I think experience as taught me a good bit. Most of my clients are over 12years with me.

I dont have anything to hide.

[Ynot]

OK Gerry.

I'll qualify why it's always a good idea for members here to not only have an up to date profile here on the BR, but also show something that lends gravitas to their posts etc.

 

If you have a scan through the BR topics you might notice a trend amongst those who ar, shall we say, not too advanced in the age/experience departments, but who also link to web sites touting themselves as 'designers', 'head technicians' or 'project organisers' etc etc. Many of these turn out to be rather less than pukka, and are simply over-enthusiastic teens who are more or less wannabes in the profession. They're often, though not always, spotted by poor spelling & grammar (SPaG) which is another major hate for the seasoned Blue Roomers, but that again isn't just restricted to the 'yoof' members.

 

Which is why we, as the more mature among us, can often be seen to be asking for clarification before offering advice - all too often someone gets caught out advising a poster about high level tech stuff only to realise later that he's a 14 yr old 'company director' who really shouldn't be contemplating the sort of question he's asked!

 

So forgive our occasional reticence and you should get along OK.

[paulears]

The original post said

I recently done a gig and the on site safety officer asked me for a safety statement for the rig. Now while I am very careful with every thing I do I could not provide one, as I do not know what is involved in doing so. All the lighting were safety chained all cables tapped down

 

We've not actually established what the 'rig' was? We've drifted all over the place ending in yet another PAT discussion and we know where they all lead .....

 

So what did he want a statement for? Lights, truss, motors, ground support? Too much to guess.

[Seano]

I could nt careless to be honest Seano what you think . {better for the OP to remain as anonymous as he possibly can imo}

And to be honest what I always find amusing is its always the guys who slag you off the most are the guys who come looking for work off you.

 

Whoa there! Stop ranting and take a breath, I'm not slagging you off, not a bit of it.

 

I'll qualify why it's always a good idea for members here to not only have an up to date profile here on the BR, but also show something that lends gravitas to their posts etc.

 

And I'll qualify why I think its better to stay anonymous sometimes. You don't know who's reading this, and you don't know who'll be reading it weeks, months or years down the line. Asking for advice on here about sorting out a gear testing regime, elf'n'safety related paperwork or anything else that you prolly should have done years ago is just fine. I'd suggest doing that anonymously because announcing on the BR that you don't have things in order that you should (from a bureaucratic, legal, or whatever other point of view) may not be in your own best interests.

 

Basically all I'm saying is don't post anything on here that you wouldn't email to the HSE (or the HSA, OSHA etc..), your clients, the venues you work in and all your competitors.

Its just the same principle as never putting a photo up on Facebook that you wouldn't want your mum to see.

 

I don't have anything to hide

Ah right. I got the idea from the post you started this thread with that you didn't really want the 'safety officer' to know your paperwork isn't up to standard.

Just trying to be helpful. My mistake, sorry, carry on.

[kerry davies]

Gerry, the H&S set up in Ireland is very similar to the UK but asking for definitive answers, particularly on electrical testing, from UK based technical people is fraught with dangers. In the UK we have colleges delivering PAT training to people who are not supposed to be trained, it is supposed to be for "practising electricians" yet almost anyone can get a 2377 qual. Not so in Ireland.

 

In Ireland there is "controlled" and "restricted" electrical work and they haven't even decided what is "restricted". So let's get away from PAT and say what I said in my first post; call the HSA infoline and ask them what you want to know.

 

I trust that they are as supportive and helpful to you as I have found our HSE is to me. The fact that the laws in Ireland are relatively new and in the process of development should mean that they will go out of their way when someone keen to adhere to good practice calls for advice. We can all guess at what the HSA means by "safety statement", only they can tell you exactly what is necessary. 1890 289 389

 

On profiles, I like to know the age and situation of posters because what I can share with Sean, Tony and Paul might not be what or how I would address a post from an inexperienced student. We have a greater duty of care to young people and, believe it or not, most of us actually care. If you do get definitive advice on statements and PAT for Eire then please share them with us, we all like to learn and you can be our eyes and ears over there.

[paulears]

If we're going a bit OT - then I am firmly of the opinion that we should NOT be an anonymous forum - people should be able to know who we are, perhaps what particular affiliations we have so any comments we make can be put into context. Many, many times we've had advice handed out by people who sound like they know the answers, but were actually students with no experience at all. I think it's very important for people to be as open as they can. Some people even refuse to answer the gender question - or type entries like "not telling". I'm very happy asking for help, and taking advice from people IF I know a bit about them.

 

If people cannot post material honestly because they are carrying out activities that might be considered bad or poor practice, then don't post. I do sometimes post material that frankly shows up some of the poor decisions I've made, but I'm content for people to read it - and if they wish, I'm sure they could find my phone number and address and quite a bit about me. Anonymity just works against the 'worth' of the forum. We have it available via the poll feature so it is possible for people to own up anonymously if someone was conducting a survey, for example.

 

If people are not willing to post openly - how can we judge the worth of the content?

[Junior8]

If we're going a bit OT - then I am firmly of the opinion that we should NOT be an anonymous forum - people should be able to know who we are, perhaps what particular affiliations we have so any comments we make can be put into context.

 

Good point - I've taken the hint!

[Seano]

On profiles, I like to know the age and situation of posters because what I can share with Sean, Tony and Paul might not be what or how I would address a post from an inexperienced student.

I like to know something about the poster because it puts the post in context a bit, and just because its interesting. I'm not so sure its a great idea to tailor any advice offered to the individual though, because its not a private conversation. People coming along with a similar question, maybe some time in the future, are encouraged to search out old threads and in a way you're offering the same advice to that person too, as well as to who knows how many 'lurkers' who may read the thread and never post at all. Better to deal with each post and each thread entirely on its own merits imo. And if you want to share something with someone that isn't suitable for general consumption - better to take it off the open forum altogether, to email or PM perhaps.

 

Many, many times we've had advice handed out by people who sound like they know the answers, but were actually students with no experience at all.

And in those cases their duff advice is usually pulled up pretty sharply by others here. We all make mistakes: if I have a bit of a brainstorm and offer someone some really wrong advice I'd hate to think it would go unchallenged just because my profile makes it look like I know what I'm on about. ("Adds gravitas" as Tony put it.)

 

If people cannot post material honestly because they are carrying out activities that might be considered bad or poor practice, then don't post.

Ok - first before I get another flaming let me state for the record - I'm not talking about Gerry here, I'm sure he's not doing anything at all dodgy. Definitely going a bit OT as far as this thread is concerned now...

 

If someone couldn't post openly because they were doing something dodgy, but that person was looking to set things right and maybe could use a bit of advice to help them sort it out - I think it would be a great shame if they can't seek that advice here. And who knows, once the topic gets discussed it might bring out some insightful posts by others, and continue to be useful to people who might search for it in the future. All seems pretty positive for the 'worth' of the forum to me.

 

If people are not willing to post openly - how can we judge the worth of the content?

On its own merits, and by the "peer review" that naturally happens whenever anyone sticks their head over the parapet and says anything around here. I don't see how it would enhance the forum if a 40 year old company director were to post a misinformed, stupid or even dangerous piece of advice that goes unchallenged, if the same post would instantly be shouted down coming from a 17 year old student.

 

Besides, in most cases there's no way to verify that what a person's profile says is true anyway. This is the internet, and until the admins/mods start checking people's id before they register, like it or not, people post here as anonymously as they want to. Doesn't bother me at all* - as far as I'm concerned what "adds gravitas" to Tony's posts, say, or Kerry's is that I've read their posts before and they have a history of coming on here and talking sense. I believe that what their profiles say is true because of what they've posted in the forums over time - not the other way around.

[Ynot]

I see what you mean, Sean, in that what's ON the profile isn't necessarily as acurate as it may seem on first glance, BUT it is the first place I tend to look when a new poster does stick their head over the parapet. It's easy to spot many of those who would be given a little less credence than others at times, simply down to the fact that some do indeed post their status as 'company director' at 15 - they're not necessarily being dishonest - just misguided... :)

 

It's equally simple (ish) to read between the lines for those with serious 'qualifications'. There are some members with credentials on their profile which are easy to check. Some easy to confirm, others even easier to refute!

 

We don't yet 'know' the OP, Geryy, but I'm sure if he sticks around long enough we will glean enough for use to take his measure and (hopefully) welcome him into the bosom as a full-fledged full-timer.

All in all, the more honest the posters are, the better all round for the rest of us!

 

As for posting dodgy info in public, that's down to the individuals concerned - if it's genuinely dodgy but they're actively trying to rectify a bad situation (been there!!) then I see no major issue. But the level of care in posting is no different to any other public forum - on the net or otherwise.

 

An example - if anyone here put into print that they were actively flouting the HSE recommendations by moving a manned Tallescope, then there would, I suspect, be an HSE inspector todling orf to that venue with a PN pretty sharpish! (Regardless of whether we feel it's right or wrong...)

 

But if the same person posted that they wanted guidance on Talle use, and asked about how they should go about maybe changing their current practices, I reckon that would be a different matter.