Hairspray

[cho_drummer]

Hi,

Just after a little advice, basically as to how much is too much for a high school production (tech wise).

 

Basically, we're doing 'Hairspray' in November. I'm the school technician and I'll have a team working under me for the show. But I'm just wondering how much is too much technically. I'm planning to film the opening song, shot for shot as per the movie, around the town where the school is based. I'll record the backing track for it myself and get our 'tracy' to sing it in the studio. That's then going to cut into the first scene (Corny Collins Show) which will be cross cutting on the stage between the show and the Turnblad home. I'm planning to use live video feeds of the Corny Collins show on screen to represent the TV when Tracy turns it on. Other possible things I'm planning are to make VJ loops and use Resolume during the performance of songs to add interrest and possibly link up some lyrics from the songs on screen to make it interresting.

 

All that on top of trying to run 24 speaking actors on 12 rf packs so slick change overs are needed and getting someone to recall a possibly complex lighting cue that I'll have created and getting sound right for a full band including timpani off stage (the idea of a video link to the band was touted about but we're planning to open up the wings and blanking off backstage with black material to create a 'pit'? at the side of the stage so line of sight isn't an issue.

 

I think I'm really asking if I'm attempting too much. I think I can pull it off, but would I be compromising the showby using too much AV/effects etc.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Cheers,

Chris.

[Stutwo]

If you think you can do it all, do your best work and be satisfied, then go for it.

 

If you think you can do it all, not produce your best work, then drop the work that isn't necessary.

[GridGirl]

I like the idea of filming the opening song, and having live feeds of the Corny Collins show, but other than that I'm not so sure about your planned use of AV. I reckon if you put the lyrics up on screen, you'll get audience members singing along - does the director want that? I'm all for AV if it's going to be advantageous to the show - and I think your first two ideas will be - but if you're doing it just because you can, or to "add interest", as you say, I'd steer clear.

[cho_drummer]

I like the idea of filming the opening song, and having live feeds of the Corny Collins show, but other than that I'm not so sure about your planned use of AV. I reckon if you put the lyrics up on screen, you'll get audience members singing along - does the director want that? I'm all for AV if it's going to be advantageous to the show - and I think your first two ideas will be - but if you're doing it just because you can, or to "add interest", as you say, I'd steer clear.

 

Sorry I may have been a bit vague with that part. Basically the plan is to run VJ loops for the songs, we do it all the time at Dance shows and the directors are up for it. The 'lyrics' are just planned to be flashes of the odd word or phrase in a video with alpha information so that I can just have them triggered for one or two seconds. Hard to explain, but for example, I'm planing to use the words 'welcome to the 60's' in a 60's looking font. I'd like them to jump onto the screen and then fade back off again and maybe one or two other points of interrest within the songs. I've not made the videos yet anyway. I'm planning on spending an afternoon with after effects and bashing through a few ideas but I have more important things to do first, like the opening scene which needs to be perfect.

[w/robe]

I don't know the answer to this but are you allowed to record parts of the show and then play them back to your audience?

I know you wouln't be allowed to make a recording of the show with out special permission but is what you are planning covered in the same way?

[Jivemaster]

Have you read the licence terms? (You do have a licence??) Are you permitted to do this in the show you have the licence for.

[dbuckley]

Don't underestimate the ability of the kids to record and edit the video; our local school now uses video in most of there productions, and its been of universally excellent quality. And kids make fine lighting operators too.

 

If you're mixing the sound, you wont have enough hands or heads to do anything else, and you will need a great kid to do mic swaps, and all the other stuff.

 

But it sounds a shedload of fun, and thus I'd say go for it!

[cho_drummer]

Yes of course we have a lisence for it and we're not breaking the rules as I understand them. We're not making recordings of the show, just utalising props to give a good experience. Essentially the opening song is not part of the show as such. In the script it comes before act 1 scene 1. With regards to my other ideas. The cameras are part of the props for the corny collins show and we're not showing a recording of the show, we're simply displaying what is seen on stage as a 'prop' to represent the fact that the TV is being watched in the Turnblad home. I will have another look at the permissions we have but I've not come across anything to suggest we're breaking the lisence rules.

 

@dbuckley,

I'll be most definatly recording and editing the video, I absolutely love doing it and I need to work with my new camera :unsure: . However I do have a good team of students to opperate lighting, visuals, follow spot, camera ops and hopefully someone realiable for mic swaps. I wouldn't trust anyone else with the sound for such a big show as it does offer me a chance to have my hand in the lighting and visuals as we're all in a small space together. I tend to find that the kids need a little direction during the shows, but we get it done and when it comes together it looks really impressive.

 

Chris.

[tomo2607]

All sounds good

 

 

But why are you using 12 rf Mics? Is the venue large? would it not be easier to just mic up the lead roles rather than every one liner??

 

Just seems that 12 radio mics will cause the most issues. If you could reduce the amount of mics needed then you could ensure the other areas are faultless. Im not saying your not caperble, just that I know the "joys" of multiple radio mics and student performers

[Russ83]

But why are you using 12 rf Mics? Is the venue large? would it not be easier to just mic up the lead roles rather than every one liner??

With Hairspray even with 12 rf mics and some very quick swaps you will not cover all the mains speaking roles in each scene. You can make it easier by having the Dynamites 'acting' on stage and have some wired mics for the 'real' singers in the wings but it is quite a demanding show. If you have the main cast on stage also singing the harmonies you will need some good stage mics to pick those up and get them above the level of the band.

[tomo2607]

Really,... I dont know the show too well tbh so cant say too much. I would have thought that a few good quality over stage mics combined with some rifle mics on the front of stage would have covered most things for a school performance. Saying that I come from a school with little in the way of budget for these kind of things and I just have to make do. With a bigger budget id proberbly be a little more extravigant too.

 

Are you using a large live band or just a samll band along side a click track for sfx? If your using varied audio effects on stage then you could always add Cuelab into the mix. Its a great program for auto cuing. just stackem up and hit space bar to go

[paulears]

One of the biggest problems with modern musicals in amateur settings is the need to get weaker singers up and above the level of the on stage sound - which is usually loud. Rifles, and PZM/PCC mics on the floor simply don't allow this - they have their place, but a busy musical like this isn't one. Other issues are simply the inability of the sound op to produce a balance mix with leads only. I always hated those shows where one actor spoke in capitals and the other person in the scene in lower case - just sounds silly. Keeping the radios off for speech and sticking them on for the songs also sounds very odd. Colleges have been using multiple mic systems for years now, and don't forget that sometimes they will be getting grades - if their contribution cannot be heard, they can't get the grade. I've has the assessor using pfl in the big numbers to hear each person.

 

12 mics isn't uncommon. A local high school uses 12 for theirs. Sure - their operators are rarely up to speed, and they do things wrong - like turning their packs on and off themselves rather than let a weaker sound op do it. Some even line the faders up in a row and ruin it like that - but in most cases, the result, even if prone to feedback is better than a few stage edge mics and the main characters.

[Russ83]

...I always hated those shows where one actor spoke in capitals and the other person in the scene in lower case - just sounds silly. Keeping the radios off for speech and sticking them on for the songs also sounds very odd.

I completely agree Paul and no matter how professional I wanted our production (that finished last Friday) to be at the end of the day we are still a school and I had to accept there are limits. For the busy spoken scenes we arranged the packs so that the quietest actors were mic'd and the stage mics dealt with the stronger actors. This worked pretty well and I'd say there were only three or four short lines that got lost in the whole show which I didn't think was too bad.

 

We had 8 beltpacks and 3 handheld competing with a band of 27 sat in front of the stage. I had two good people dealing with the packs backstage and the plot looked something like this:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2d6rde.jpg

A few bits got simplified as the week went on to ease changeovers but it gives you some idea. The other two handhelds were with the Dynamites. The problems interesting bits come with some of the big/loud musical numbers, Big Doll House especially where you have 11 characters with lines in the song plus several 'full cast' lines and lots of movement. Pictures will be posted shortly...

[cho_drummer]

We've managed to get down to 24 speaking roles and a 15 piece band...It's a big show and kids can't project amazingly well.

 

With regards to the mics...its really not a problem. I'm re-terminating a load of extra mics from CPC...they sound pretty good for the price and that means all I'll have to do is get a couple of guys backstage doing the RF pack swaps.

 

A little background on myself, I'm a noise boy, I've done freelance engineering professionally at one time and another and I have a degree in sound, I'm more than capable of understanding a desk, mixing a complicated number of singers/actors and a band and getting everything sounding good and as faultless as possible (you can't account for a pack dropping on the floor/batteries 'falling out'...even when taped up...:) )

 

We have a 15 piece band (we're using synth strings etc to cut down on instruments, and, although we have a world champion brass band, we actually don't really have any strings players who could hold their own with the band).

 

So here's what I've planned...channels 1-11 wireless lavs. 12, wireless H/H. 13-15 stage fills (not sure if I'll use shotguns or the U853's I've got, depends where I can position things when the set's up). 16-18, dynamites on wired mics. (we're puting them on stage blocks which should work fine and can be easily removed between scenes).19-24, Band (I'm talking bass drum, Bass guitar D.I., Guitar, Keys 1, Then probably an XY pair if I can get away with it or possibly some spot mics on the brass/wind section. I'll be using some amps if I need and if I'm struggling for channels I'll daisy chain a folio or something and run a pair into my main desk.) Easy <_<

 

The sound stuff is covered.

 

I'm much more worried about lighting than anything else.

 

(just a disclaimer, I only put the things about myself to make you all aware of the fact that I am a noise boy and I do have a strong background in sound, not to big myself up in anyway, I know I'm small fry comapred to a lot of the guys on here, but I know how to work a desk).