Also asking for career advice!

[clurston]

Hopefully I'm posting in the right place here, I've been thinking about asking this for a while but have been spurred on by this post!

 

(I realise how long this looks, but I'd really appreciate you taking the time to read it! TBR is brilliant and I'm sure you'll all have some brilliant answers here!)

 

So I'm in a sorta-similar position to the OP of the above, but probably in more of a bind, if anything!

 

I'm just about to head into my second year of university in Bristol (at UWE) studying Sociology - which is not something I'm enjoying at all really, and I think I kind of knew from before I got my A Level results that it wasn't where I should be heading, but I ignored that feeling/listened to my parents/didn't want to rock the UCAS boat!

 

Anyway, my question is, where would you go from here? I have a little experience of theatre, I've SM'd a few small shows, including a couple of small-scale tours, DSM'd a middling-size musical, been board op and crew and lots of little bits and pieces like that. I know that when it's a hobby its always going to be much more fun than if it's a career, but I've had a couple of not-so-nice experiences in the theatre; I've had directors who've made members of my (adult) crew cry, I've had someone else's show go to absolute heck and I've had to fix them...etc...etc.. but the thing is: even when it's stressful and hard and I can't see how its all going to come together - I still love it!

 

Its hard to explain - I hate writing about myself at the best of times - but I have such a passion, especially for stage management, and I'm not by any means brilliant, but I'm working hard trying to get there and I think I have a bit of talent here.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm going to try my best to stick out the last two years of my course if at all possible (having passed the year- :)!) but after that, I'm not sure where to go? I mean if I had a money-, parents-, admissions- and circumstances-no-object choice, I'd drop everything and jump into a Bristol Old Vic stage management course! As things stand, however, I guess I have a few options;

 

-Finish this course, then apply for a place at another university to do a post-grad in technical theatre (and obviously keep at the experience as much as possible in the next two years)?

-Non-university type course, although I'm not too sure what's out there; apprenticeship-'stylee'?

-Finish the course, aim for a related job, earn enough money to stay afloat and just have theatre as a hobby?

-Find a steady job after the end of my course, and take crew work etc on the side, and work my way up?

 

And then of course there is;

 

-Spend this year trying to get into an undergrad stage management course somewhere really good, then (if I'm successful) and still feel the same way at the end of year 2, take the place and start over, having wasted two years and a lot of money!

 

Huge appologies for the long, rambling, mostly ridiculous post, but I'm sure there are people here with some brilliant advice to give! Please feel free to be honest and shoot me down, I appreciate you being real with me!

 

Thanks! Clurston

[paulears]

I'm going to say stick it out and get the sociology degree.

 

Look at the number of people moaning about having a degree specific to our industry and can't get work. A degree in our area is rather narrow, while yours can be applied to a much wider area - including ours!

 

Look at the people who graduated before Performing and Production Arts in all it's varieties was popular. Most people then did their performance/production as a hobby. It didn't have to be 'studied' per se, you picked up bits and pieces as you went along. You can do this while studying - either by joining a campus based society or maybe an external amateur one. Get yourself out there doing it - and treat the Sociology as a 'job' - something you have to do, but don't necessarily enjoy. This won't work if you're one of those people who have to be interested to be motivated - when I was doing my teacher training, I can honestly say I hated every minute of it, found it dull, pointless and depressing. BUT - I put up with it, did the work to the best standard I could and was determined to pass, despite the course being useless.

 

Post grad study might not be sensible, if you can get good now.

 

I think over the past few months we've had many similar questions about the ability of a degree to get you work, and although it can open doors in a paper or on-line application, most of us get our work by word of mouth.

 

My son is 19, and had a career change suddenly. What he'd planned to do suddenly came to a stop, because a close friend did it six months earlier and as internet messenger type services work fine in the province that sounds like mayonnaise - he was advised to re-consider. He definitely did not want to go to uni, and I'm happy with that but he suddenly announced that he'd like to do what I do. He's worked with me for 3 years in the summer holidays, and has an aptitude to pick things up quickly, and has confidence. He's got his first panto by asking one of the incoming tour managers for it. This person has known him for just a few dates each year, for three years, but recognised something and gave him the job.

 

So - my advice is to make our industry your part-time/volunteer activity until you graduate, and then use the contacts you've made to get work.

 

To be honest, in the past my advice has been to chuck it in and start again - but leaving a course 2/3 through doesn't paint a good picture. People will think, though in this case it's not true, when the going gets tough ...

 

Use your sociology to your advantage - you know how people work - take advantage of it.

 

How many members of Monty Python were on acting courses, how many senior BBC managers did media studies? There are quite a few senior people in the industry who were stage managers at one point, and chief executives with an artistic directorial background.

 

One more year isn't that much?

[clurston]

I'm going to say stick it out and get the sociology degree.

 

....

 

One more year isn't that much?

 

Thanks! Sensible advice :P (although its actually 2 more years, I'm just about to start my second of three). You're right about people having a specific degree and still struggling for work! You're also right about Sociology, its a lot about critical thinking and testing things and a little about figuring out how people work! Employers (apparently) like it and its been useful to me in the industry in the past - I now remember that's one of the reasons I chose it...

 

I guess I don't need to be interested to be motivated, I think if I get my head on straight decide I'm probably not going to enjoy it but I *am* going to get the grade then I won't be able to stop 'till I've done it - personality quirk, for better or worse!

 

I'm concentrating on 'getting good now' - as far as uni goes, I've been involved in society-type backstage crew for the performing arts center at uni this year, and I'm running it next year :) and I'm in with an amateur society for a couple of shows a year, which is useful.

 

So, top tip, keep working, looking and asking for experience?

 

Thanks, you've been relly helpful :)

[Smiffy]

I'm with Paul:

 

Although I suppose that's easy to say being as I never went for any further Education after I left School (I was lucky - I was offered a job at one of the bigger Lighting Companies and took it) although I have always regretted not having any qualifications, other than a few GCSE's. Not having the qualifications has never barred me from any work, however on a personal level, I always feel a bit awkward and possibly even a bit thick when conversation in the bar among other lighting professionals turns to education.

 

Having said all that, I will again re-iterate that I am with Paul. Stick with it. What you want to do now, and what you want to be doing when you hit your 30th Birthday are two totally different things. My 30th was on Saturday, and my career choice has taken me all over the world and put me onto some interesting projects, There are however other things that I want to do with my life that while not having a degree in anything wouldn't necessarily be a bar to getting the gig, it would certainly help. So much so that I am now seeking out ways to get a degree so that I can put that particular demon to rest.

 

Sociology is also a usefully cross-bordered degree to have. If you think about our business, be it Theatre, Television, and especially Theme Parks, it's all about the manipulation of people. All to create that one magical moment, or series of moments. It may suck now, but it will pay off in the long term.

 

Do as Paul suggests, get stuck into the University Theatre Group, Local AmDram Groups, and any pro casual work you can get and learn and make contacts. At the same time, make the most of Uni.

 

Cheers and Good Luck

 

Smiffy

 

Edit - missed a word out - changes the meaning of the sentence

[TomM]

You're in Bristol, you say?

 

Then have you tried the Tobacco Factory, the Old Vic and the Hippo, to see if they can use you as a casual? A bit of professional experience is valuable alongside the degree. If you are happy to do things other than stage management, have you tried some of the hire companies, there are many in Bristol, even if you don't want to work as a lighting technician it will be useful experience - and on a lot of smaller Fringe type shows the stage manager is responsible for the lighting as well, another string to your bow and all that!

 

But I would say definitely finish the degree, and take all the opportunities you can make for experience whilst you do it!

 

(My biases are as follows: I now work as a freelance lighting technician, mostly corporate work. I graduated university two years ago, having studied an unrelated course at a university without an arts department, and spent far too much of my time working in the theatre or on events for the university and the Student Union, with a bit of casual work on the side.)

 

HTH

 

Tom

 

PS - sometimes work that might interest appears on here too: http://theatrebristol.net/jobs

[paulears]

The one thing that really gets me nowadays is the belief that a degree proves something specific.

 

The best backstage person I've worked with, as her college lecturer, and then employer, dumped our industry and went to be a wedding/events manager at a big posh Country Manor type place. She has a degree in Stage Management, and I guess turned her attentions to a different area that could use these skills. We're a bit blinkered really. I now spend a lot of time leaving other people to do what I did, and frankly, I don't miss it either. Our industry is very 'narrow' at the top, and essentially the pyramid structure is very, very wide at the base, and not really that high - so to get to the top in this industry is very difficult. Branch out, even slightly and progress (and pay, if you rate that critical) get better, more quickly!

[kerry davies]

You seem eminently sensible and honest, a refreshing change. If you want a degree or some sort of formal qualification at the end of your studies then carry on with what you are doing. There will be opportunities to diversify from sociology later in your studies and social or cultural anthropology will be probably more use to you in this business than a lot of the specific courses aimed at theatre.

 

It used to be said that success was 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration but in showbiz it is 10% talent combined with very hard graft and 90% who-you-know. These contacts you will only make by doing the job and not by studying. Most young qualified people I have known got their paper qualifications after they had done a few shows, become addicted and wanted more opportunities to work whilst studying. That is why we have a preponderance of families in the business, you are born to it or brought up in it more often than not.

 

The one good thing about HE is that at Uni there will be a host of opportunities to gain experience, as TomM suggests, and Bristol has theatres doing non-professional work at QEH and Redgrave up toward Clifton as well as pro houses. There are also loads of small production type companies and festivals going on there if you want to get into events rather than straight drama.

 

Pauls' point about pay and career ladder is no small matter, if you want to own a home or raise a family I would strongly advise some other career. To quote Joanna Lumley, "I wouldn't let my child be onstage because they wanted to, you only do this because you HAVE to, wanting is certainly not good enough!"

[Claire]

I don't know how valid my opinion is because I've not done my course yet but I did an arts degree, then trained as a health professional and throughout that time worked in theatre gaining loads of experience etc in production, stage management, pretty much everything... and now am going to do postgrad technical theatre because I THOUGHT the amdram thing would be 'enough' for me and it wasn't. However I am really, really glad I did it this way round because I am quite financially stable, own my car and my flat (Well the bank own most of it :blink: ) and I have another career I will always get work in, if the stage work is thin on the ground. So I would say finish your degree as then you'll always have it, and make the most of the other learning opportunities that you will have just by the fact of you being a student. I learnt more outside my first degree than I did actually on my course.

[fazJ]

I am well with Paul on this one.

 

I left uni with a chemistry degree 3 years ago now and since then I have worked my way up through and now I am a resident Lx at a reasonable sized regional theatre, I have to admit and this is only my opinion but I would say that 9 out of 10 people who I have met or worked with or supervised who have a technical theatre related degree don't really have any clue about how things actually work or run.

 

My advice is to get as much actual experience as it is invaluable you pick up more in one week on the job than seems a lot of people seem to get in 2 years of education. I do concede that there are some courses out there that are good and I have met some amazing graduates who could wipe the floor with me any time, however all of these also had significant amounts of on the job experience even as a casual box pusher.

 

Don't leave your current degree don't throw anything away, you can always fall back on it at some point if you need to. I started getting on casual crews and then when the casual crew finished the load in and were released I had a word with the LX or Noise Boy and asked him or her if I could stay around and watch what they were doing and most were more than happy for me to do this and I learned a lot just looking over someone shoulder at how they did things and structured the way they worked.

[ramdram]

Clurston, you must finish your degree, there is no question about it. If theatreland remains closed to you at least you have some form of insurance...

 

A career on theatreland is, at the moment. not the easiest to get into and the pay is often not on a par with many other professions. You will know this from reading BR anyway...so you are going into this career with your eyes wide open...?

 

One place I do volunteer stuff and, just to clarify, the task(s) I perform do(es) NOT take work away from a paid post. I get paid in tickets so to speak and much, much more importantly to me the enormous store of knowledge freely given of by any of the tech team. (Even to the extent our amdram company has even been invited for a tech theatre tour backstage on any dark week.)

 

This theatre has not recruited tech staff for years. The present incumbents are, generally speaking, just under thirty and the more senior bods in their late thirties. The head tech guy is younger than me...realistically he will be replaced by someone from the theatre...ie. someone who knows the place inside out...and the staff, which is probably more important that you might yet realise. In simple terms there are NO old blokes on the cusp of retirement.

 

Staff have already had the lecture on the need to reduce or even cut costs, ergo don't expect silly percentage payrises. Funding that was around isn't any longer...donating patrons and supporters have their own financial worries so the flow of cash from outside sources in not as gushing as once was.

 

I can only repeat the advice given so many times to aspiring tech theatre folk...you MUST join an amdram company and/or get unpaid work in ANY theatre near where you work or study. You MUST learn the "language" and rather more than just the basics if ever you want to get anywhere near an interview board.

 

You MUST know why TRS cable, say, is preferred in some instances and why it should be coiled just so...you MUST know about sound levels and how not to deafen the audience. You MUST know about H&S and how to apply it...(remember there are "official" answers to H&S, which you MUST know...)

 

You MUST be able to get along with folk, not just with colleagues in your theatre but visiting talent. Everyone gets tired, not just YOU, so your mates won't always be making allowances just because you were out on the tiles the night before...or even earlier that night if you are doing a get out.

 

You MUST appreciate social obligations to the seat buying patrons such as captioned performances, hearing loops, audio described and "signed" performances. You MUST know your way around a "lighting grid" and how the system works...reasons for RCDs or DMX, say. You MUST appreciate why theatreland works long hours and often thru the night...and that you and yours are happy with this working lifestyle.

 

The reason I mention the above, which is a mere fraction of what you MUST know, is because when you go for your interview the board will EXPECT you to have some knowledge of the theatre. Other posts on this forum from long ago will have indicated that theatres are NOT always recruiting apprentices. They advertise for specific types of post for specific TRAINED staff.

 

So, whenever you do get an interview the very last thing you would want to say is along the lines of "well, I was hoping to pick it up as I went along..."

 

If you have reached an impasse/crossroads in your student life then you need to think hard about the way forward. Theatre is NOT the easy option. Glancing at the job ads in just this forum will give you some idea of what is available. Similarly the number of freelancers offering their services. Talk to any of the latter group and you will learn that even if you do get freelance work getting paid soon after, or at all in some instances, is yet another issue.

 

Just as an example, one of the volunteers I work with in another venue has just gained an HND in sound engineering from a quite reasonable educational institution. He has had only three jobs since April, IoW, Glastonbury and a PA job at a corporate bash up North...and that's it.

 

Needless to say but he has been paid weeks and weeks in arrears for two jobs. The third job, well, probably owing to his age and gullibility, was conned into paying for the diesel to get the PA gear up North...just because the organiser was a "bit short" on the readies...so he is owed his wages and the EXPENSES he incurred.

 

So if that IS the life for you then go for it. IF not then at least you will have your degree to fall back on.

[clurston]

Sociology is also a usefully cross-bordered degree to have. If you think about our business, be it Theatre, Television, and especially Theme Parks, it's all about the manipulation of people. All to create that one magical moment, or series of moments. It may suck now, but it will pay off in the long term.

 

Such a good point, I've thought this before! Thanks for the advice :blink:

 

 

...and spent far too much of my time working in the theatre..

Sounds familiar! Thanks for the advice, the hippo and co all seem to have little warning messages on thier websites saying something like 'we don't accept CVs unless we're advertising for a job', which none of them ever seem to do! I suppose I should hit the stage door anyway, it cant hurt to ask?

 

 

You seem eminently sensible and honest, a refreshing change.

Why thank you! That's lovely of you to say. I love the Redgrave, uni do a show a year there, but I always thought of that and QEH as like, off-limits, 'cause of the educational links. Again I suppose there's no harm in finding out and asking, thankyou! I love the quote, that sums up where I'm coming from quite well!

 

Thanks for all the advice everyone, even if I've managed not to quote you; it's usefull and I really appreciate it!

 

Cx

[TomM]

The hippo and co all seem to have little warning messages on thier websites saying something like 'we don't accept CVs unless we're advertising for a job', which none of them ever seem to do! I suppose I should hit the stage door anyway, it cant hurt to ask?

 

Find out who the appropriate person is, the Chief LX, the TM that sort of thing (depends on the venue) and contact them. If you just contact Stage Door, your CV probably will be filed in a large plastic container...

 

T

[bigdave1407]

Guildford School of Acting do a 1 year intensive course - might be worth looking into

[Ynot]

All the advice here has been pretty much on the nail, and it looks as though you're sensibly heeding that which has been given.

Though I'm predominantly involved in the am-dram theatre side of things I still do some casual work at the Brum Hippo and there's at least one of the other cassies who recently graduated from uni up here and part-paid for her course (in some business studies or other) by working shows both at the Hippo and elsewhere (including the uni). After graduating, she found a job pertinent to the degree, but hated it (as I understand things) so is now back on the circuit and is working in London (and edinburgh) as well...

 

So - I'd agree - stick with the degree, get as much experience both paid and unpaid at am dram as you can and enjoy the experiences.