House Lights Dimmers

[dwright2104]

The venue that I help out in are installing a false ceiling, and I suggested that we put in dimmable house lights to be controlled by DMX.

 

Now this place is small and it will be on a cheap as possible, but it dose have a 3-phase supply. so I was looking at something like this http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_d620_i...dimmer_inst.htm, and one of these to contol them http://cpc.farnell.com/transcension/ar-12/...ural/dp/DP30229 which would allow us to expand in the future.

 

I have a few questions which I am unsure about, is this dimmer rack safe to be powered 24/7 even when the lights are off via DMX overnight as it will be more than likely placed in a locked room beside the power supply. or are there specific dimmer racks for house lights?

 

Thanks for your help.

[Dodgecaliber]

Welcome to the BR.

 

Firstly, Im a little unsure of your experience, so what we usually do on here is asume you are thick as **** until proven otherwise. We're not being nasty, but we have to go with asuming the worst.

 

Obviously to ask a question like this, I'll asume you don't have much experience, so please ensure you get someone that is qualified to do the job.

 

 

The dimmer you are looking at will do the job fine. It's not ideal, but then again, im asuming your not a pro theatre. If you were to rig the dimmers into a rack, then connect a fan out sockapex you could connect up any type of lantern you like.

 

What kind of houselights are you looking at? Some spare fresnels or commercial lights?

 

Although it would be better to install a hard power switch to turn off the dimmers, it's not essential. A dimmer will not draw any power if your lights are blacked out - So what is the danger?

 

I would suggest (depending on what you have) that you align this new dimmer with your existing ones and stick the houselights on the last few channels of your current lighting desk. You will save yourself a controller and it's a lot easier.

 

Hope that helps!

 

 

 

Edit: Where are you?

[oilyspark]

I think you're right to be concerned about dimmer lifetime if you intend them to be continuously energised. Safety may not be the issue but reliability possibly will be. I have seen many kinds of dimmers used for 24/7 applications - some types (e.g. old Betapacks) had specific components that would fail prematurely, although once these were replaced with higher-spec types the dimmers would then be fine. I don't know about the particular products you linked to but low-cost power electronics don't tend to last well. The dimmer pack is fan cooled; if the fan runs continuously it will probably be the first thing to go, the rest of the dimmer will soon follow! Architectural lighting dimmers of good make won't rely on inherently short-lived parts. Quite a few theatre lighting dimmers run 24/7 too though!

 

Lucien

[dwright2104]

I have a wee bit of knowlege, and no I wont be installing this myself, we would get the electritian to install the dimmer rack, I forgot to mention the spark has said he was going to install flourecents that can be dimmed with the wall dimmer switches currently installed, so I assume they will also beable to be dimmed by a dimmer rack, I may be wrong, that was the other thing I forgot to ask.

 

We would probably only need two channels of the dimmer, as the spark said the total current of lights was 12a I think, cant remember, but would get the remaining 4 channels wired to 15a round pin sockects above the ceiling to allow us to use them for lights we may put in temporarily.

 

The hall currently has 8 par cans run off a DJ type controller, which will be removed when the new ceiling goes in, and in the future (hopefully near) will install some new lights for the stage.

So we have no other lights or desk as of yet.

[themadhippy]

Be aware if your intending to use florrys you'll more than likely need a specific dimmer,most theatre type dimmers don't play nicely with florrys and tend to break very quickly

[dwright2104]

When I said I wasnt aware that you could dim florecents, he said they have ballists so they are just like normal incandecent bulbs. Will this still be a problem with dimmers or not?

[dmxtothemax]

Incandesant lamps are a purely resistive load,

Where any light with a ballast will be a inductive load,

These are quite different, some dimmers can cope with inductive loads,

Where others dont,

You should check with the manufacterer of the dimmers.

The dimmers in the link look to be resonable.

If the dimmers are installed by a qualified and experienced person,

With good ELB protection and appropriate fuses then the dangers are reduced.

If money is tight then I would go with recessed down lights,

Dimmable floros will be more expensive,

And usually flicker at low levels.

Installing a easily accesable main switch is the best option,

But will usually involve more expense.

 

When I said I wasnt aware that you could dim florecents, he said they have ballists so they are just like normal incandecent bulbs. Will this still be a problem with dimmers or not?

[Andrew C]

When I said I wasnt aware that you could dim florecents, he said they have ballists so they are just like normal incandecent bulbs. Will this still be a problem with dimmers or not?

Sorry, but I have yet to see a fluorescent that dims nicely. They dim slowly to some arbitrary level then snap off. This would be fine for somewhere that just wants control over level of illumination, but as house lights? Forget it, it will look terrible.

 

In an ideal world put the fluorescents in for cleaning or other non-show times, and some incandescent lights for performance times.

[Jivemaster]

Lots of problems are solved by having two sets of lights.

Special low energy lights for normal use may be fluorescent or discharge. These will do for meetings and cleaning and consume little energy whin left on. HOWEVER for performnce purposes they are poor because of their very odd dimming characteristics -basically they dont dim evenly.

SO

Tungsten lamps are best used for house lights that you will want to dim out prior to the show.

 

Keep the house light controls convenient to the desk but separate! Lots of people will need to put the house lights on who do not understand the lighting desk, put CLEAR signd to the house light controls.

[peterdevon]

Why not make the supply from a change over switch so it can be dimmed when required and the rest of the time on a permament supply.

 

In our village hall we have fluorescents for general use and uplighters tht can be dimmed when required

[Andrew C]

Why not make the supply from a change over switch so it can be dimmed when required and the rest of the time on a permament supply.

This is often done to give house light control in the event of a desk failure. Not really "emergency" lighting, but a useful addition to a system non the less.

[dwright2104]

The florecents have been chosen because some of them also double as emergency lighting, and they look the same except some have green lights on them. Im going to see some that he has put in elsewhere. The main reason is they look the neatest and cheapest to run.

 

To have two seperate lighting systems would be partly pointless in this hall as the dimmable lights would hardly ever get used.

 

Could anyone suggest the best dimmer to use for florecents, that could be left powered 24/7.

 

Thanks

[Andrew C]

Could anyone suggest the best dimmer to use for florecents, that could be left powered 24/7.

No. Really, no. Just don't do it. You WILL regret it.

[Jivemaster]

Fluorescents are the cheapest available lighting to run. However they do NOT dim properly so they are totally unsuitable for house lights for a stage performance. Even more so as your statutory emergency lighting is built into the fluorescent fittings there are good reasons for not interfering with their correct operation. Whatever they look like you need the manufacturer's approval to fit their approved dimmer -if there is one. Even so dimmed fluorescents usually fade so far then just go OFF, they are really best used full on or off.

[dwright2104]

Okay so flourecents are clearly out the window then, they really want to have energy efficient bulbs though.

 

So, would these types of bulbs work with dimmers? if so this would possibly be the best solution.

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/93622/Lighti...ergy-Saving-CFL

 

cheers