Retaining accessories with lanterns

[karl]

We do actually have a storage area set aside for gel frames adjacent to the gel desk. The problem it is on the lighting gallery which is reached from the fly floor which in turn is accessed via two vertical ladders. Consequently getting / returning gel frames is a PITA unless you happen to be working on the spot bar which is accessible from the lighting gallery.

 

When people are working on the overhead / FOH bars what tends to happen is they dump the gel frames on the stage, on the props table, on seats, etc. They probably intend to take them all up to the gallery when they are done but then get distracted and it doesn't happen. Subsequently somebody else comes along and finds the frames. They either don't know where they should go or don't like climbing the ladders so they decide to store the frames under the SM's desk, in the back of the tool cupboard, behind the radiators, etc.

 

What is worse is when people find a lantern with no gel frame and decide to do without (or improvise using LX tape, gaffa, chewing gum, etc.) and you finish up with gels floating earthward at random moments during performances. Oh and you get the joys of cleaning burnt on adhesive off your lanterns!

 

Maybe I'll move the gel frame store to be somewhere more accessible like in the wings and see if that helps. Possibly even having two points (one on the gallery and one near the stage) might be even better.

 

Thanks for the suggestions, I shall give that a try first and see what happens. If there's still no improvement maybe additional safeties is the way to go.

[robhall3192]

I started a simple system of just having labelled boxed for Frames and Gel, so that the staff could easily find them. It doesn't matter if there in the lantern or not, but is a portable solution which they can personally carry as they are rigging, meaning there is no need to leave things lying around.

 

Still yet to see that actually happen, but is the idea. If its portable people can put away or get out quickly and tidily

[J Pearce]

Derig boxes can be REALLY useful on a bigger rig.

 

A couple of boxes, one for frames, and one for gobos etc (in their holders). These boxes can then be taken up to the gel room for deprepping ready for the next show. You might even get as far as a FOH set and a stage set.

[Don Allen]

I used to work on an outdoor rig of Par64's that had thick safety wires crimped onto the lower corner of the gel frame. This made it very hard to get the gel frame past the gate runners, you usually had to bow the gel frame out and they were steel ones. You also had to cut a small triangle from one corner of the gel frame to fit the gel in fully.

 

Having safeties on gel frames is a good idea, especially in an outdoor venue, but use small clips in one of the top corners of the gel frame. This method wont stop people leaving gel frames scattered around the venue. Maybe instead of a swearing jar, you have a lost gel frame jar.

[GridGirl]

On some more thinking about this issue, I reckon that if you can devise a way of attaching a safety wire to the gel frame so that it doesn't a) make it difficult to get the frame in or out of the unit, and b) make it impossible to easily change gel, then you're onto a winner. If the gel frame is left dangling from the unit when people strip colour out, they'll slot it back in probably without even thinking about it, rather than throwing it to the ground. The trick is finidng a way to attach the safety to the frame without causing problems! Maybe the smallest flat-head rivet you can get away with, or something similar?!

[Ashley R]

On some more thinking about this issue, I reckon that if you can devise a way of attaching a safety wire to the gel frame so that it doesn't a) make it difficult to get the frame in or out of the unit, and b) make it impossible to easily change gel, then you're onto a winner. If the gel frame is left dangling from the unit when people strip colour out, they'll slot it back in probably without even thinking about it, rather than throwing it to the ground. The trick is finding a way to attach the safety to the frame without causing problems! Maybe the smallest flat-head rivet you can get away with, or something similar?!

 

Well with PAR cans you could use a cable attached to one of the top corners of the Gel frame (obviously only on one side) and then have a small carabiner on the other end which would attach the frame to the fixture. you could drill a hole in the frame and crimp the wire through it.

 

That means the Gel frame is still able to be removed in case you wish to gel on the floor (Which I do)or for some unforeseen circumstance.

 

But it will make people have to think twice when they remove the gel frame, instead of just pulling out the gel frame to remove it and chucking it on the floor it stays attached to the unit and it would have a higher probability of staying with the unit as it would be definitely quicker now to leave the frames up there.

 

Mind you I can only seeing this working with PAR cans as they only have small tabs as runners and having the cable joined at the top would not interfere with anything

[the kid]

The way I would do it is rivet a loop of metal on one side of the frame, not riveting both together, much like the frames that have the grips on to lock the frame closed.

 

Then make up a wire from yoke to frame with enough distance to remove it. It is a solution but I think good storage is a better one. I was going mad last year with all the frames I had missing, turns out a student decided that they would hang them all up with the other spare frames (I have some obscure frames for lanterns I don't have).

[CharlieH]

Sorry to intrude, but I thought this might be useful:

At school we have a stock of Dexel Acento Fresnels, and all the gel frames, and grilles, have a thin wire screwed into the top, and then screwed into the front of the lantern. I always assumed this was for H&S, but it does also prevent people leaving them lying around. I haven't found it a problem or a hassle, except if they get caught beneath the gel frame.

 

I am going into school on Wednesday for maintenance, and can get a photo if you want?

 

Again, sorry to interrupt - I know this isn't the Next Gen bit of the forum, but I was reading the thread and thought it might help.... :P

[david.elsbury]

Again, sorry to interrupt - I know this isn't the Next Gen bit of the forum, but I was reading the thread and thought it might help....

Don't be sorry- there's no need to stick to the Next Gen forum if what you wish to say is useful, intelligent, relevant and adds value to to the conversation :-)

 

PS- Snap a pic- might be interesting to see this idea already done. Do you think the manufacturer did it, or it's been done because the fittings are in a school so someone decided it's a good idea?

[J Pearce]

The cheap birdies I bought a while a back also have colour frame safeties. With the backshell safety too there's more steel wire than birdie!

[CharlieH]

PS- Snap a pic- might be interesting to see this idea already done. Do you think the manufacturer did it, or it's been done because the fittings are in a school so someone decided it's a good idea?

Most probably the manufacturers, the hole in the lantern has a nut soldered beneath the casing for ease of use, and I can't see anyone at school doing this! I know this isn't conclusive, but I just get the idea that it's been professionaly done as opposed to done in the school workshop ;) However, there is nothing about it on Dexel's website......

 

I will take some pics on Wednesday and upload them.

 

EDIT: Just re-checked, and in the picture on the website it shows one of the safety wires: Link

I must have missed this first time round! B-) It is unclear from the photo, but that wire goes down inside the slot and is screwed into the gel frame, with a seperate one going into the grille (not shown in the picture)

 

Hope this helps :D

[karl]

Some interesting ideas. I think I might try providing a box which can be stored somewhere convenient and then used when de-rigging to stash the bits. That seems like the least amount of cost and effort and if it works then excellent. If people still insist on dumping the frames everywhere and leaving them I may move on to the safety bond idea.

 

I was going mad last year with all the frames I had missing, turns out a student decided that they would hang them all up with the other spare frames (I have some obscure frames for lanterns I don't have).

We to seem to have a number of gel frames which don't fit any of our current stock of lanterns. I suspect most venues that have been around for a while probably have a stash of frames from previous generations of lanterns.

[robloxley]

Maybe what we need is a lantern with some different, integral, non-removable gel retention system, then we could do away with losing/damaging/dropping from a height gel frames? Why do we need a separate, removable frame; why not design the problem out?

[J Pearce]

Pulsar made (make?) some par64s that have a fold down gel front that clips the gel onto the front of the lantern. It's great until you want to use scrollers!

[adam2]

I have seen lanterns with a permanently attached fold down gel frame.

These were primarily intended for film location lighting, but I have seen the odd one in theatres.

 

Long narrow fitting, intended to be free standing on the floor, about 1.5M long and about 150mm high.

Used 10 or 12 linear halogen lamps, each 500 watts.

Each lamp had a fold down mesh grid to hold gell, secured by a magnetic catch.

 

I dont know who makes/made these. Have seen them used outside venues, placed on the pavement, in order to light arriving celebrities etc. Low profile, use cheap lamps, and less liable to cast shadows than alternatives.