Which Qualifications

[OllieH]

Moderation:

I split this topic off from a job request, as it\'s evolved, and turned into a discussion. For clarity, I've copied the original text below

Hello,

 

Im writing to ask for some experience, of any sort in the live entertainments industry, particularly in intelligent lighting, and video design, since this is where my interest and my passion lies.

 

I have just taken all my GCSE\'s, and will return for A-level study in PerformingArts, ICT, Photography and Media/Music Technology in september of this year. I then hope to gain a degree in my chosen technical field, at one of London\'s renowned universities, such as LAMDA, RADA, Guildhall, Rose Bruford (and bristol old vic.)

 

Recently, I have been in contact with several people already in the industry, and they explained how they first started out, so I\'m really looking to follow in their footsteps.

 

Im sixteen years old, but turn seventeen in early December, as Im aware of the legalities involved in this field.

 

I\'d be extremely grateful for any advice, or perhaps even opportunities that you could offer me at this early stage in my career.

 

I am at the stage where any opportunity is an opportunity, and I will definitely \"grab any with both hands\".

 

Thank you very much for reading, and I hope to hear from potential employers soon.

 

With Kind Regards,

 

Jack Weir

 

 

It might help to tell people what experience you\'ve had thus far, so to gage where you currently stand.

[mrcog]

Hi Jack,

 

It may be too late to change your choices now, however I would defiantly consider taking physics for A level and possibly even maths... Yes they are very academic subjects and you do have to work very hard to gain good grades in them (especially if your not that academic like myself). However they do set you in a good position should you decide that you don't want to work in this industry or if you want to study and more technical based degree (SLLET) rather than a more arts based course like a BA in lighting design.

 

Also, some of the physics can be tailored to what you enjoy, for example for one of my coursework's at A2 we had to write a 2000 word assignment, which I chose to do on Acoustics in Live Music... I started of with a line array theory section and this ended up being my whole coursework as the physics behind it is so in depth!

 

However, if those are your choices and they are set in stone, then I thoroughly recommend applying to the national youth theatre next February. You both learn a lot and it looks good on your CV (so I've been told! :huh: ) And also just try and get your name out in the industry! Make a few links with people (which NYT does a little bit), maybe get some work experience, volunteer for some work! I got my first job after volunteering to get out a 2000 seater venue where I'd been on holiday!

 

Hope this helps a bit, and if you need any advice about maths and physics A levels then feel free to PM me,

 

James

[rooftop]

I would echo that - and I can't express enough how much I would recommend you consider some more "generic" A-levels such as Physics and Maths. You may not consider them glamourous right now, but I have first hand experience of guys like you who have followed pretty much the path that you are electing to follow.

 

Fine, they turn out to be good enough lighting / sound designers / ops / etc.

 

However. The guys I have met or interviewed clearly have no concept of the underlying fundamentals - ie. the physics and maths. Like, for example, why their PA is making a buzzing noise - "it MUST be a fault on the desk" - er, no, it's because you're inadvertently making your main L&R outs unbalanced by using that there guitar jack cable to go from desk to main EQ (or whatever).

 

The other thing, of course, is that the career you think you want to have right now is not guaranteed for life - either by the decisions you decide to take in life, or by external factors. I would therefore try and keep your options open at this point in time.

[Martinman]

I would echo that - and I can't express enough how much I would recommend you consider some more "generic" A-levels such as Physics and Maths. You may not consider them glamourous right now, but I have first hand experience of guys like you who have followed pretty much the path that you are electing to follow.

 

Fine, they turn out to be good enough lighting / sound designers / ops / etc.

 

However. The guys I have met or interviewed clearly have no concept of the underlying fundamentals - ie. the physics and maths. Like, for example, why their PA is making a buzzing noise - "it MUST be a fault on the desk" - er, no, it's because you're inadvertently making your main L&R outs unbalanced by using that there guitar jack cable to go from desk to main EQ (or whatever).

 

The other thing, of course, is that the career you think you want to have right now is not guaranteed for life - either by the decisions you decide to take in life, or by external factors. I would therefore try and keep your options open at this point in time.

Hi there, thank you for your reply, I do agree with exactly what your saying, allthough the difficulty lies in the limiting 4 options I have for A-level. What I mean is, all the universities I have phoned have said it doesn't matter because its based on the fact you can work to that standard, you learn the "fundamentals" whilst on the uni courses, so I am told. Back to your point about the options open, I consider myself pretty good at video production as well, so this would be a good alternative for me, which means I need to take media at A-level, leaving no available space for and consideration of physics. Maths is out of the question for me. This is the trouble I have, the industry is so unpredictable, and im not even close yet !

 

Regards

 

Jack

[tomrbland]

Hi Jack,

 

I am just about to sit the last of my A-level Exams. I did Physics, Maths, Music and an AS in Music Technology. I'm not the most naturally gifted of people and both Physics and Maths (especially Maths) have been a real slog for me. But I really don't regret it. Not only are they subjects useful in all sorts of places (No mater if I stay in events or not) but they open you up to a different way of thinking. The way you have to tackle the Maths problems is a much higher level of thinking than I could ever have been exposed to if I haddn't taken Maths.

 

Physics, goes with out saying, no matter if you are a lampie, on sound or both (like me) there is allot to be learnt in physic. Interference patterns, electricity, a whole topic on the capacitor. There is loads and, in my opinion a deeper understanding of these things means you can play to their strengths, making you (usually) better than the people who don't have this core knowledge of why things work.

 

Anyway as others have said before me I can't recommend Physics and Maths enough (even if the are a pain in the *%$$**) But other than that, have you tried to get in with the local hire companies? Offering to be a general dogsbody. As you can see from the forum making tea is a vital job everyone must do at some point!

 

Just my 2p there

Now back to revision....

[Jivemaster]

Almost all personnel depts seem to need English and Maths at GCSE, without those you can't apply for many jobs, if you havent passed then then resit them now.

 

Basic A levels are recognised more widely than esoteric specials, Media Studies being one to avoid as it has a poor reputation, just done to make up the numbers.

 

Remember that your career will likely change two or three times in your lifetime, so something not too specialist may support future careers better.

[rooftop]

This is the trouble I have, the industry is so unpredictable

 

 

All the more reason for not getting too specialised at A-level!

[bennickson]

Hi

 

I just graduated from uni the other day and none of my A levels had anything to do with working in the industry and yet it has turned out fine for me! I can understand how a basic knowledge of physics can help but no more than what you learn on the job!

I think it's more important to do A levels that you're going to enjoy as you'll be studying them for 2 years and if you don't enjoy the subjects then you're not going to be motivated to do them well!

 

Hope that helps!

[paulears]

Without doubt, the ones I took have stood me in good stead in every single job I've had: Maths, Physics and Technical Drawing (with not a computer in sight!).

 

 

People in general have a poor understanding of maths in particular. I don't think I found it that hard at the time, and I've forgotten large chunks of it (differential equations, for example) - but trigonometry is really useful in our world, and so are the various calculations involving Pi. Physics had big chunks of stuff that I've never used (mostly gas stuff), but electrical and energy and things about dynamics do help turn general knowledge into something more useful.

 

To be fair, over the years - especially since I turned into a teacher, I came to realise that it isn't the subject title that matters, it's the grade. Anything below C doesn't count. A's and B's not only say you were good at a subject - they also mean real effort was put in. You don't have to be brilliant to get an A, you have to work really hard - that's not the same. The subject is important to you, because it gives essential knowledge that underpins what you do, while the grade indicates to others the effort you made.

 

The sad thing is that D and below is NOT good. Without doubt, the lower grades have been extended so almost anyone, with minimal effort, or minimal understanding can 'get' a qualification. For BTEC people - the word PASS is the problem one. Anybody with an overall grade for a unit of Pass may as well have not bothered. A few people will be quite upset by these comments, somehow downgrading their effort - however, with no doubt whatsoever, I'd go as far as saying if you got a Pass, or a D,E or F then how hard did you actually work? How much effort was really out in? How many times did you miss deadlines?

 

Modern education likes everyone to succeed, so have official titles for levels of work that employers would laugh at. I have never, ever, seen any student get a grade more than one different from the one 'guessed' unless there was a proper exam board/teacher evidence problem.

 

I have been sent dodgy work for A Level to double check, where a parent is sure something went wrong, and it's pretty obvious to me - it was rubbish, and they tried to blag it - and failed.

 

 

I failed History - I hated it, didn't do the work, and tried to blag it. I deserved to fail. Nowadays, I guess I might have even got an E, and claimed this as a success!

 

(I actually had to retake maths - I turned up a day late for the second paper and sat in the exam hall all on my own, positive I was correct, and they were all late!)

 

 

This topic has grown quite a bit, and is quite useful, so I'm going to split it out, as we don't usually conduct chat in this section.

[Stan Hope-Streeter]

Without doubt, the ones I took have stood me in good stead in every single job I've had: Maths, Physics and Technical Drawing (with not a computer in sight!).

People in general have a poor understanding of maths in particular. I don't think I found it that hard at the time, and I've forgotten large chunks of it (differential equations, for example) - but trigonometry is really useful in our world, and so are the various calculations involving Pi. Physics had big chunks of stuff that I've never used (mostly gas stuff), but electrical and energy and things about dynamics do help turn general knowledge into something more useful.

 

The problem is painfully apparent from many of the questions asked on this message board (and some of the inaccurate replies too).

 

Far too many people think they can be successful technicians whilst having no basic background knowledge, or understanding, of the fundamental principles behind the technology.

 

Sound, Electricity and Radio seem to be the worst areas of ignorance. This implies Physics isn't being studied enough, or taught properly.

 

If you want to use Radio mics, you should have some basic understanding of the technology. Otherwise you won't be able to avoid having problems that will wreck a show, or (at the very least) disappointing results that don't justify the budget.

 

If you don't understand Electricity, you shouldn't be dealing with it because it is dangerous in the hands of the ignorant.

 

And as for Sound..... I could go on for ever, but why do you think there are so many reports of expensive line arrays sounding so bad at festivals? Ah yes, the manufacturer's aiming software tells you where to point it, so you don't need to know anything about acoustics do you? Did the person who wrote the software have any experience of system engineering for major events, and if so, did they ever walk the field with measuring kit to see if their on-screen fantasies had any correlation with reality?

 

How many kiddies have Smaart on their laptops, but no idea how it works and consequently how *not* to use it? How often do you see them trying to EQ out the floor reflection picked up by a measuring mic 5ft up on a stand?

 

Why were the manufacturer's crossover settings so wrong? All my amplifiers, from the biggest to the smallest, have the same sensitivity...

 

Hey - we have a small, wide, assembly hall, what line array should I get?

 

etc, etc...

[Simon Lewis]

From a University viewpoint, applicants may just have to prove a "general level of education" with their A levels but on some degrees the subject / content is of particular importance. Furthermore, with the prospect of capped numbers and potential cuts in budgets, you can expect Universities to be more selective in their offers, using academic ability as a filter to reduce numbers.

 

For any applicant, it is worth checking what the particular degree courses of interest expect you to study and achieve ahead of making final A level choices.

 

Simon

[halfpint]

hi

 

I have been working professionally for 6 years since graduating for uni. I took A-levels in theatre studies, photography, sociology and maths (don't ask what I was thinking!)

I went to a specialist drama school to learn production management. The A levels you take do not matter with regards to getting into uni its all done on points, however my maths has been the most useful of the subjects I took.

I was never particularly academic but was good at maths but I had to work hard to get my grades.

The biggest learning curve was at uni, where I was taught many many useful skills for working in the industry. I am now working as chief LX not directly linked to my degree however there are overlaps with risk assessments, time management, people management and I have the added bonus of being able to step up when required to fill in for the stage manager and production manager when required.

 

It comes down in my opinion to what you enjoy, my A levels gave me the chance to improve my academic skills and my degree only built on that. I enjoyed the subjects I choose and that really helped with succeeding at them.

 

I worked as a volunteer at my local venue, follow spotting panto, I literally just phoned up and asked if I could do this and they gave me the gig, that was my foot in the door. From doing this I learnt lots form just observing what the full time crew were doing, it gave me a grounding in theatre etiquette and the basics of the roles within a venue.

 

When I went for my uni interview, there were people there with so much more experience then me, I thought I stood no chance of getting in, these people were the ones which didn't get a place, they were looking for people with the drive to learn about technical theatre, the ability to be tought and a passion for theatre. I guess their theory being if you know so much already then a degree isn't going to expend you any more.

 

A degree is defiantly the way to go though, I got to the same pay scale within one year of working at a venue as a guy who had been working there for 9 years purely because I had better skills at a younger age, from studying and working in theatre. my degree set me up for the real world, was designed with professional work in mind and offered the chances to meet and work along side some of the top creative's in the industry.

[madorangepanda]

The A levels you take do not matter with regards to getting into uni its all done on points, however my maths has been the most useful of the subjects I took.

Not true. To do a degree you will need the relevant A Levels that are normally available. I.e to do a Physics degree you certainly need a Physics A Level and also Maths.

 

If you're degree is in an area where the A Levels are not so common then the entry criteria will be very different. E.g. Out of all the Archaeologists at my university not a single one in the past few years has done Archaeology A Level.

 

That said, for a Technical theatre based degree I think the candidate with A Level Maths and Physics what more likely get an offer than the one with German and General Studies. Even though the offer may not stipulate requirements for A Levels in certain areas.

[Simon Lewis]

The A levels you take do not matter with regards to getting into uni its all done on points,

 

Just as madorangepanda states, many universities require specific subjects (and grades) at A level. Simply amassing a pot pourri of UCAS points won't work for those entry requirements. Of course, there are some courses where simply having sufficient points is OK, but it comes down to checking with the admissions tutor of the course that you are interested in.

 

however my maths has been the most useful of the subjects I took.

 

Glad to hear that! It's a sentiment that I pass on to many prospective University students (usually those thinking which AS subject to take to A2), but it doesn't always get acted on!

 

Simon

[smalljoshua]

I've always been told that Maths and Physics were good ones to have to A2 and was glad to see that SLLET had those subjects listed too.

 

If you're in any way logically inclined, I'd suggest that Maths is a good one to do, I've finished the AS and have started on the A2 and if you just look at it with a logical approach and an open mind then it isn't too hard to understand IMO.

 

Physics is in a similar vein and doing the two together is a good combination IMO.

 

I've heard it said to me more than once that "Theatre Studies" isn't as highly regarded as it could be as IIRC it is far too wishy washy to be of any relevance in the real world.

 

However, YMMV and I wish you all the best.

 

Josh