Converting single composite video input to multiple ethernet outputs

[TeeJay]

So today's ponder is as follows:

 

thanks to a sub-contractors misfortune, we currently don't have any video feed to our dressing rooms showing the stage.

 

The camera, wiring and video monitors are all fine - it was the processing unit that lost the magic smoke. The processing unit isn't needed at this stage (and will be replaced as part of a larger building wide revamp on video distribution at a later date in any case) but what we do need to do is get the video feed of the stage back into the dressing rooms.

 

I've found this on CPC:

http://cpc.farnell.com/muxlab/500001/video...ereo/dp/AV17766

 

which looks like it'll do the job - my question is this:

 

Does the Muxlab 500001 convert the video into something that a Netgear switcher can transmit?

 

The video feed needs to be split to feed around 24 monitors after it's been converted onto RJ45 cabling - we have the switchers available.

 

Yes I know that I can order a couple of boxes to check - but if someone has done this in the past, it saves me re-inventing the wheel. This unit is within our price range (bearing in mind that we'll need to purchase over two dozen such units). The problem with trying out two boxes also is a question of time - it adds a few days to there being no video feed of the stage to our dressing rooms.

 

The audio isn't necessary right now but having it as an option is (very much) preferred - and we obviously don't need any HD options.

 

The muxlab unit was just the first I found - if someone wants to suggest alternative boxes that will work here, I'm all ears.

 

Many thanks.

[Brian]

Does the Muxlab 500001 convert the video into something that a Netgear switcher can transmit?

No. It's only a balun - a DI box for video if you like.

[Sully]

The camera, wiring and video monitors are all fine - it was the processing unit that lost the magic smoke. The processing unit isn't needed at this stage (and will be replaced as part of a larger building wide revamp on video distribution at a later date in any case) but what we do need to do is get the video feed of the stage back into the dressing rooms.

What was the processing unit? Was it a video splitter or something else?

 

I've found this on CPC:

http://cpc.farnell.com/muxlab/500001/video...ereo/dp/AV17766

 

Right, so it's a balun which allows you to transmit video and audio over twisted pair cabling

 

Does the Muxlab 500001 convert the video into something that a Netgear switcher can transmit?

 

The video feed needs to be split to feed around 24 monitors after it's been converted onto RJ45 cabling - we have the switchers available.

 

Right, baluns convert the signal to run over twisted pair cabling, twisted pair cabling is not necessarily carrying ethernet level signals or ethernet at all, if the video connectivity is ethernet based you'd need a different sort of box entirely. You almost certainly just want some kind of CCTV type video splitter.

 

David.

[TeeJay]

Thanks for the prompt replies.

 

If the muxlab box isn't what I'm looking for, then does anyone have any suggestions for something that would convert a composite video signal into a signal that the Netgear switches can recognise to send onwards? Is there such a beast?

 

The buildings RJ45 network is about the only cabling that consistently goes to all the locations we need to get a video signal to.

 

Would this transceiver be more appropriate?

http://cpc.farnell.com/_/av16044/video-tra...-bnc/dp/AV16044

 

The lack of audio is a little annoying but we do have a working audio show relay feed everywhere so we don't need the audio on the RJ45 lines - and you can't complain at this price range.

 

Or this set?

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/level5/module.j...=cpc/345210.xml

 

 

Or should I accept that this is going to cost a little more and go for the Kramer TP9/TP10 units?

http://cpc.farnell.com/kramer/tp-9/av-over...r-ir/dp/AV16555

http://cpc.farnell.com/kramer/tp-10/av-ove...r-ir/dp/AV16556

 

All help is appreciated here.

 

Cheers

[Brian]

None of the above do what you want.

 

You need something that takes the incoming video, mpeg encodes it, turns it into a TCP/IP datastream and stuffs it on the network. At the other end you need a decoder to turn it back into video.

 

On the encode side there is stuff on this page http://www.kintronics.com/neteye/cameraservers.html to give you an idea of what you're looking for.

[Hilary Watts]

This might do the job - it appears to be similar to Brian's suggestion but is from a UK supplier:

 

http://www.sld.co.uk/products/networkvideo...ojet/VIP_X1.pdf

 

However, I suspect that at £660 for the encoder plus £832 for each decoder it would be cheaper to put new cables in!

[Sully]

Thanks for the prompt replies.

 

If the muxlab box isn't what I'm looking for, then does anyone have any suggestions for something that would convert a composite video signal into a signal that the Netgear switches can recognise to send onwards? Is there such a beast?

 

The buildings RJ45 network is about the only cabling that consistently goes to all the locations we need to get a video signal to.

 

The cabling goes to all parts of the building but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to use Ethernet (the netgear kit) to plumb the video over it. IP video encoders/decoders aren't cheap, the IP kit above probably isn't the cheapest but I'd be surprised if it isn't a lot lot cheaper to use baluns and some kind of video splitter/distribution unit distributing from the comms cabinet but using the underlying cabling, might be slightly tricky if the cabling doesn't all go back to the same point but that isn't insurmountable.

 

David.

[Pete McCrea]

As Sully says's if the physical layer goes to all the rooms, then is it not possible to simply patch the lines past the IP switches, so that all the patching is done on copper?

 

Extron and Kramer do various CAT5 products, and have single in multiple out type units, and DA's. 1 MTP T AV TX, 3x8 way Da's and 24 x MTP R AV receivers would set you back about £4k from extron. These units will do CV and audio, and the image quality is pretty damn good, as they are an active unit, rather than a passive unit. It would then eb a case of patching each line through to each area required.

[TeeJay]

Hi,

 

I'm trying to avoid using any IPTV products and was only suggesting the netgear switches as we had them available - hence why I kept saying RJ45 rather than Ethernet. Sorry if this caused any confusion.

 

Sully - yes all the RJ45 input and outputs do all come together in one place - in terms of the current set-up it's easier to have RJ45 sockets rather than bare end twisted pair.

 

Pete - The Extron units seem to be pretty much what I'm after.

 

I will freely admit here that I'm struggling to see a difference between the discription for these and some of the products I listed before - but that's exactly why I ask.

 

And if anyone can suggest cheaper alternatives to the Extron, I'm all ears. We don't have surplus cash lying around that £4000 odd can come easily.

 

Thanks again for everyone's help

[revbobuk]

Basically, the balun products you listed before are analog, in that they simply balance the composite video and send it down cat5 cable. If you want to use a switch to distribute it, it has to be digital, which means expensive digitising circuitry somewhere. Baluns just use Cat5 cable because it has good CMRR due to the closely controlled twist.

[TomHoward]

We have those MuxLab Balun boxes at work - although ours are these slightly different units, that have 2x composite and 2x audio on four RCA, as opposed to BNC and two RCA. Currently to distribute the video to multiple places, we use a composite split at the source end and split out into multiple input Balun boxes - and this goes straight through CAT5 tie lines to the end position (or through a CAT5 patchbay) rather than through any switchgear.

 

MuxLab do make this distribution box for their Balun boxes, although I'm not sure of the price. Interesting though, one of our IT guys commented that we should be able to distribute the Balun boxes we have with (and I have to put in a disclaimer here that I'm not sure about the details of this) something like a 'layer one' or 'level one' hub - apparently some of the really old network hubs (as opposed to switchers) are just voltage repeaters as opposed to having any kind of intelligence / processing at all, so if you found one of those and switched out one of your existing routers to make a dedicated CAT5 distribution network just for the Balun boxes based around one of these you might be on to something.

 

I meant to pick up one of those hubs and try it with our boxes, but the need never arose yet. If anyone can confirm if there's any truth to the existence of these voltage-repeating only hubs then I'll try and track one down and try it out.

[sleepytom]

I have a few muxlab baluns - they are OK for composite, not as good image quality as the active extron / kramer ones, but good enough for show relay. I would get one of their distro boxes as its designed to work with their baluns - whilst a very old ethernet hub *might* work the cost of the muxlab one is low enough to make it affordable (iirc) and you don't have to spend days / weeks tracking down an old hub and making it work, only to have a solution which requires a specific bit of secondhand kit which is bound to die on the opening night of a big show!

 

I'm not a big fan of baluns but for this kind of purpose they provide an adequate solution at an affordable price point and I've found muxlab products to be the best compromise between decent build quality and price - much better than the cheapy cheapy Chinese crappy ones but not as good as the expensive extron ones.

[Peter F]

Considering this is for a temporary fix for a show relay I imagine cost is a factor.

 

Here's my cheaper and perfectly OK solution:

 

48 CCTV Baluns. Make sure you get ones that are BNC to RJ45. Some of the CCTV ones don't have an RJ45 connector on them.

 

1 Reasonably well loaded Avitel Composite distribution amplifier (DA)

DA on ebay

There's one! And it's in your neck of the woods, misspelt and collect only.

 

If you don't get that one do a search for 'composite distribution amplifier' Leitch, Probel, Avitel, any old broadcast unit will do you. I suggest getting one with cards and more cards than you actually need. Invariably one of the cards doesn't work but if you have spares it doesn't matter, just swap it for the next one along. You know what? Just get in contact with ebay seller 'broadcast-auctions'. He's got stacks of the things.

 

 

If I remember correctly the Avitel cards have got 8 outputs on each card so you would need to link 3 cards to get 24 outputs. You need some bnc patch cables to do the links between cards. The final card will need a terminating, looking at the photo of that one on ebay I reckon it's got terminating plugs already on it so you're in luck.

 

If your DA doesn't have a terminator do a google for 'BNC 75 ohm terminator'. Should set you back about 3 quid. Alternatively go and have a rummage around in a vidiots pocket, they carry them around for months without using them.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention when you've finished with them you have a stock of lots of really handy baluns. Keep some, sell the rest to recoup some of your costs.

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

[paulears]

It's just a thought, but is there still a television RF feed to each TV? If there is, it could be simpler to just get a modulator and distribute the video as an 'extra' channel slotted into the TV band?