Exciting news...

[Humey]

I feel a little annoyed that whoever give the go ahead for the caretaker and his mate to start refurbishing this didn't consult myself first. I am aware that I am only a newbie to this but at least I know what DMX is, unlike the caretaker. I find it mildly amusing that the school have just paid at least £20k on refurbishing something that they could have replaced for a fraction of the amount. I don't know what the next step is, I will speak to my line manager and tell him how I feel but I'm guessing nothing will be done.

 

When I first joined a local company stated that the whole power supply would need to be changed if we were to buy new dimmers, would this be the case? I know its difficult to say without seeing the setup..

[Davethsparky]

Any equipment that appears damaged or defective should not used until formaly tested.

 

Why formally test damaged equipment? you'll just be paying someone to tell you what you already know. Damaged or defective equipment should be repaired or scrapped depending on cost of repair etc.

[Alex222]

When I first joined a local company stated that the whole power supply would need to be changed if we were to buy new dimmers, would this be the case? I know its difficult to say without seeing the setup..

This could be correct, the power supply may need to be upgraded to a larger supply if you are adding further channels of dimming then you currently have/had as more power than what is already there may be required.

[Andrew C]

This could be correct,

Why? There is a thing called "diversity". You don't have everything on at once. If you buy more, or more powerful lights you might want to upgrade your supply, but replacing dimmers? Not necessarily.

 

That isn't to say it may be needed for some other reason, or that it wouldn't be a good thing.

[pritch]

There is a thing called "diversity". You don't have everything on at once.

 

Diversity being a completely alien concept to some electricians, it seems. We've had it as well, where a (non-theatre) electrician has started going on about pulling a new supply in from the substation. Protests of "If we used 48 10A channels fully loaded, at the same time, we'd need to give the audience welding goggles" fell on deaf ears.

 

I don't know how the OP's £50k quote was put together, but I wonder if it was with one company quoting for dimmers, and the school/council's preferred sparks quoting for the electrical side.

[RoyJ]

:P Hi, I specialise in the older lanterns,and would be more than willing to assist you with lamp identification.Our oldest lantern is a seecol patt 50a, so you can see we have a good source of reference material,Just one point though, bulbs grow, lamps glow! If you want to email me with lantern descriptions I wiil try my best to help.I also agree about the dimming situation and wonder why you haven't got new dimmers.Keep it illuminated Roy

[Pattern123]

When I first joined a local company stated that the whole power supply would need to be changed if we were to buy new dimmers, would this be the case?

 

In short - No, if you are running Strand Mini 2's then you could swap these for a modern equiv directly. Even if they are 5 Amp units, it doesn't follow that the supply needs upgrading, if you are still using the same quantity of lanterns and still doing the same shows, there is no issue. The dimming could be swapped first, the supply later if it needs upgrading for more lanterns. Provided the system is designed with appropriate protection at each stage and space is left in it for upgrading then there is no issue.

[Brian]

When I first joined a local company stated that the whole power supply would need to be changed if we were to buy new dimmers, would this be the case?

In short - No, ...

 

Actually the answer is probably 'Yes'.

 

If an electrical contractor carries out a significant amount of work, which replacing the dimmers probably is, then they should look at the whole installation to see if it meets the current required standards. As the current installation is Mini-2s, which were around over 35 years ago, then the installation may well fall short of what is required. Output cabling may well be rated for 5A circuits, and at 35 years old it will require replacing. The mains input side is probably underrated as well.

 

The actual hardware cost of new dimmers is often swamped by the cost of infrastructure and 50k does not seem that expensive. Especially since no-one knows what that was buying.

[dmxtothemax]

Yes! be super careful,

They are almost paranoid about electrical safety now days,

You need to be sure of the minimum standards expected in your case.

 

That is a great idea, I am going to insist on PAT testing and carry out a risk assesment. I did however have a brief play around to put together a lighting design for an AS level production...Its great fun and really gives me a chance to embelish a performance with my own ideas...I can see why all you lot on the forum do it!!!!!

[Humey]

Since using this on a number of occasions this week, 2 of the sockets have stopped working.

[Ynot]

Sounds to me that you need an independent, preferably accredited in some way, assessment of the school's facilities. Even if it's someone from a local pro theatre who could come in and give you and the powers that be a sane breakdown of what problems you have, what you're likely to have in the (near) future and what options there are for improvement.

 

That does NOT mean you bring in another supplier to quote for anything - yet.

Most suppliers will have their bias, and are unlikely to be independant - as has been said earlier in this thread, a LOT usually out to make money, regardless of whether what they sell the right thing to the customer. And to be honest, that's not a surprising state of affairs - in their book, customers normally would know what they want and order accordingly.

[rossmck]

I know of a school recently that had 4 old Strand STM racks that were replaced with 8 Zero88 Betapack 3s - The only associated work was installing a new distribution board with separate MCBs for each rack replacing the old mechanical switch. From memory they had no interest in replacing any of the rest of the installation (e.g. the bars, cabling to them, patch panels etc)

 

Again, there is not enough power to provide every channel with 10A simultaneously, the incoming supply is not rated to that ... but that's taken care of by the RCBO in the new distribution board which is rated lower than the supply so there is never any potential of overloading the supply to the racks.

 

I'm not a qualified electrician but there would almost certainly be aspects of the rig that would probably be done differently if it was done now (shuttered outlets, surface mounted sockets rather than them hanging out of the bar on short tails etc) but this was all pre-existing and therefore simply replacing the dimmers did not necessitate it (in this case anyway)

[Humey]

I have been thinking about getting an independant person to come in and just have a look. I expressed my concerns to my line manager and he really wasn't bothered, all he said was 'I'm just happy all the lights are working!' and 'at least I'm not paying for it'....all the support you need!!

 

We have a few Health and Safety audits coming up and I am going to express my concern to the H&S officer, although I believe it will fall on deaf ears.

 

Incidently I have found the proposal which was given to me by the company that gave the £50k estimate; quoted was a replacement grid "Bespoke manufactured pre-wired and labelled flat grid", a DMX network "12 way DMX network for scrollers, smoke machines, UV guns etc" and, of course, installations...

[Pete McCrea]

From that last comment it sounds like they were providing a top end installation that would have enable the lighting system to work quite closely to a theatre. whether that is what you require is another matter. If it is complete replacement of a lighting grid, DMX distribution and then the possible upgrades to the mains supply, £50K could quite easily be a fair figure.

[Humey]

Today I had an inspection of equipment by a non independant Drama specialist and expressed my worry about the Mini 2's. They agreed and condemned one of the racks which over the weekend the electrician had removed 2 channels and left bare wiring. I felt very happy after my meeting with them as my opinion finally mattered. We then went to see the health and safety officer and he explained that they need to be PAT tested (as I requested last week but was ignored) and that he is not happy with the current standard. He also stated that the refurb was a complete waste of money, again something that we all are in agreance with!

 

I then had the caretaker and the health and saftey officer come in with me and look at the racks. He (caretaker)made a bold statement saying the 'Mini 2s' the most reliable dimmers around and nothing around at the moment is better'...I kept quiet...

 

Unfortunatly I feel that unless I speak up (which has always been my downfall;shyness) that we will continue refurb the mini 2s for an extortionate price and be no better off!