Ben Lawrance Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 I work for a secondary school (I am an ex pupil there) and they are getting a re-fit in their main hall. I was asked to find out how much it would cost and what equipment we need etc etc. After doing all this, and sorting out a rep from AC to visit the hall, I walked in on the schools business manager talking to some chaps from some company about putting new stuff in. When I questioned him what he was doing, he replied "sorting out the re-fit" I wasn't even told that thins company was coming in, let alone going to be told they came in. Basicly I have been screwed over by the school, after doing 5 years of work there (99% of it for free) What do you guys think I should do in the way of continueing my envolvemtn in both the project and work at the school. I think that if the re-fit happens with the "other" quote they were given then I will just "not be available" to do any work there, and let them get on with it. Opinions please. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 I was in a similar circumstance recently and you could do what I did, simply tell them that you are a professional and charge them what you want, not that im saying screw them over for the work you do... the other thing to do is to ask for a meeting with the people involved in the refit and giving the quote the go ahead, put across your argument for the quote and let them decide, if they go for the other one then that is their decision, they are the ones that will have to live with it for many years to come, you are just working for them. to say that you wont anymore just because you didnt get your own way seems a bit childish to me (dotn mean to offend).well just my thoughts. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 no no no,much more fun for you to insist that they train you in the safe use of the new equipment,make sure any new lx bars are in useless positions(not hard if a buisness manager is in charge),try and get them to install 5A everywere ect ect ,give it a few weeks then leave complaining that the new refit was a total waste of money :** laughs out loud **: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 ohhh, sneeky... I like it :** laughs out loud **: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Ummm. In what capacity do you work there? If it's just casual or occasional, they aren't really obliged to tell you about anything they want to do. They would be ill-advised to go about it that way, but not breaking any kind of agreement. Just to throw a spanner in the works, as it were. Why don't you talk to them about it? It seems to me that what they were doing was getting another "opinion" - certainly they are obliged by their agreement with the LEA to get at least 3 quotes for any work of this kind anyway. Overall, what they've done doesn't seem too bad. A bit underhand, perhaps, but that's the big ol' wide world of work, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 try and get them to install 5A everywerehold on, does anyone still install 5A?? if so, why?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 hold on, does anyone still install 5A?? if so, why?? I think that's the point that Mssr. Hippy is trying to make! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 hold on, does anyone still install 5A?? if so, why?? Um when I was at school (I left about 5 years ago) we had a reasonably new rig (can't have been much if any more than 10 years old) that ws exclusivly 5A However there were 96 circuits hard patched to the dimmers where there were 2 100A feeds - each split to 4x63's It was justified to me when I queried this that there was some obscure regulation that schools fall under where they can't have more than 3x incoming potential full draw from a hard patch - this giving only 40circuits max with 15A It was also justified to be cheeper to buy a box of 96 5A-15A adapters than upgrade the incoming feeds. Well I thought it was silly at the time but if the rule actually exists then it was a good way arround it. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 I'd be inclined to agree with Bryson's points ... You say you work at the school, but then you say that 99% of the work you do for them is free, so I guess it's safe to assume that you are not a member of staff, but rather you just help out voluntarily. If this is the case, no-one at the school has any obligation whatsoever to involve you in any way in the forthcoming re-fit. They probably appreciate the fact that you helped out by bringing in AC Lighting for a site survey, but as Bryson said, for a project like this they'd be obliged by the LEA to get three quotes for the work. If I was the school's business manager and you were a volunteer helper, and I was having a meeting with a prospective supplier which you walked in on and then proceeded to "question what I was doing" (your words), you'd be told to bugger off out of my office and mind your own business, so I think you got off quite lightly there. Don't take this question the wrong way, but given that you're not actually on the staff of the school, or in any other way connected with the running of the school in any official capacity (governor, etc.), what makes you think you should have been formally consulted regarding which companies are invited to tender for the refurbishment? If you feel that you no longer wish to be involved with the school, then that's entirely up to you I suppose. I'm sure they appreciate what you do, but at the end of the day you're not a member of staff and you have no obligations to them so you can walk away any time you choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Well if it is decent stuff then I wouldn't complain (If it was me!!) I don't know the circumstances, but 5A sounds weird! I thought people changed to 15A along time ago. 5A is fine but should you need to hire in additional stuff you might have to get converters - FARSE! as most hire companies work on 15A. What kit have they put in? I'm no expert in the theatre environment, I am a live, concert person with experience on outdoor/arena work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Tovey Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 If I was the school's business manager and you were a volunteer helper, and I was having a meeting with a prospective supplier which you walked in on and then proceeded to "question what I was doing" (your words), you'd be told to bugger off out of my office and mind your own business, so I think you got off quite lightly there.I reckon there's probably a good reason why you are presumably not a business manager! That would be a sure way of losing the help and support of a valuable volunteer, and in many cases educational theatres are run almost entirely by volunteers and just would not function without them. Having been in a similar situation, I know how infuriating it is. Especially when they then spec and buy completely the wrong kit - I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. My advice would be to arrange an informal meeting with the relevant staff members, advise them of your unhappiness at their handling of the situation, and politely ask them if they want the benefit of your involvement in the future. Good luck Peter Btw, hi to all on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 If I was the school's business manager and you were a volunteer helper, and I was having a meeting with a prospective supplier which you walked in on and then proceeded to "question what I was doing" (your words), you'd be told to bugger off out of my office and mind your own business, so I think you got off quite lightly there.I reckon there's probably a good reason why you are presumably not a business manager! That would be a sure way of losing the help and support of a valuable volunteer, and in many cases educational theatres are run almost entirely by volunteers and just would not function without them. Believe me, I have no desire whatsoever to be a business manager! I'm quite happy to leave the pen-pushing and bean-counting to someone who is happy to sit at a desk and wear a suit all day, while I carry on with what I do best at the sharp end of the theatre/TV business. But my comments still hold - if I was the business manager in question, being paid to do a management job, and I was holding a meeting to discuss official school business with a prospective supplier, and I was interrupted by an unpaid volunteer who felt they had the right to barge in to a closed meeting with some kind of misconception that they had every right to be there and question my professional decisions, then said volunteer would get extremely short shrift from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 It sounds in a way as though the business manager was only doing his job. You say you asked AC to look at the job, but did you ask anyone else ? Standard practice is to get at least three quotes for any job like this and then pick the one that is best value (i.e. the cheapest). OK, so the business manager might be being a little insensitive here, but is it really worth throwing a tantrum and storming out ? It certainly would do nothing to strengthen your position with the school in the future. You say that you have done a lot of work "for free", do be careful - there could be a few insurance "issues" there if you were unfortunate enough to have an accident. You could try approaching the business manager and (having apologised for your outburst) suggest that as the school is investing all this money in new kit, it might be an idea to take on someone on a regular basis to look after it and would they consider "formalising" their relationship with you, given your intimate knowledge of the building ? It may just be the right time to spread your wings and broaden your horizons a little now. After all, you "left" this school five years ago, but are still there. I can see you are attached to the place, but it is only a school at the end of the day. There's a big, wide world out there to explore with all sorts of exciting shows and possibilities for you. Look to the future, don't live in the past. Start doing the rounds of the local theatres and hire companies to look for some career development opportunities, who knows where you could wind up ? Good luck :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Frazer Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Standard practice is to get at least three quotes for any job like this and then pick the one that is best value (i.e. the cheapest). Do you really believe that the cheapest quote is the best value??? :D IMHO The cheapest quote is generally cheap because the company uses crap kit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Do you really believe that the cheapest quote is the best value??? Â IMHO The cheapest quote is generally cheap because the company uses crap kit! Not so, I believe. I am, at the moment, perusing a set of five quotes for an installation specified by myself: (see "Tell me what bugs you") and there is a good 20% difference, despite the fact that the kit is all identical (the spec is specific.) Interesting, no? Best Value (note the capital letters folks! - I work for a council...) is a clearly definable concept, and has primarily, but not exclusively, to do with price. I have selected the cheapest quote, as I believe it offers the Best Value to my employers...that's not quite the same as saying that it was the cheapest, but that was a major consideration. What I'm trying to say is: the cheapest quote is often the Best value quote. Not always, conceded, but often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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