Munro Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Hello, recently our school hired some movers we had the scaffolding up, and the light has hung on the bar, no probs, until I get screamed at by the site man doing the rigging "The *~?(! Bar is moving." The red bar was reflecting by 2 inches every-time he let go of the light. So we decided as time was short to put them on the floor http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9463/img0475cn.th.jpg As you can see in this not so clear photo, the red bar is just hanging there, just out of shot to the right the bar goes through some concrete support, but is this not a bit dangerous? especially as there is a fair bit of weight on it. Opinions please, before I go shouting at the company who fitted it 4 years ago. I don't know if I'm allowed to say who it was, so I wont do for the time being. More Pics:http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2756/img0474ro.th.jpg http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3846/img0476hs.th.jpg Joe Moderation: Images thumbnailed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Hi Joe; If, as you say in your profile, you are a student then you are certainly not "responsible for " rigging or any other technical feature of theatre at your school. One of your teachers is responsible even though you may do it all with little or no supervision. Not sure what you mean by site man but assume another student, staff members should know what procedure to follow.You have done well to refrain from hanging LX when suspecting a hazard and flagging it up is absolutely correct. However you should flag it up as soon as you are aware of any problem to the relevant teacher or technician. I couldn't comment on the standard of installation from photographs but it definitely is not a students place to "go shouting at the company that fitted it." One possible scenario is that they fitted it all to specifications supplied by the school and that there are limits to what can be done with the LX rigging. Another is that they aren't theatre specialists and have done a job on behalf of the school, there could be many reasons which you are not aware of. They might get upset!Whatever, well done again for not taking chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcog Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 No-one on this forum can really give anything more than, it could be safe, it could not be safe... First port of call would be to try and get a copy of the SWL for your WHOLE GRID! You may have been rigging x number of source 4's off y bar for 5 years and it's all been fine. However, if the total weight on that bar is exceeding its SWL and it all falls down you have an even more serious case on your hands! Obviously a little bit of flex is normal for a bar, however 2 inches is a fair amount and if it was me in this situation I would defiantly take the lantern down and consider the options... James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munro Posted March 8, 2010 Author Share Posted March 8, 2010 No-one on this forum can really give anything more than, it could be safe, it could not be safe... First port of call would be to try and get a copy of the SWL for your WHOLE GRID! You may have been rigging x number of source 4's off y bar for 5 years and it's all been fine. However, if the total weight on that bar is exceeding its SWL and it all falls down you have an even more serious case on your hands! Obviously a little bit of flex is normal for a bar, however 2 inches is a fair amount and if it was me in this situation I would defiantly take the lantern down and consider the options... James Like I said, we took the lights down, as we felt they weren't safe. However, before the mover went up (32KG) 25KG of Strand had just come down.Its not the main scaff that is flexing but the red bars which it secures onto. However, I have asked for a SWL but the records have been lost due to moving office apparently. Joe A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. Hi Joe; If, as you say in your profile, you are a student then you are certainly not "responsible for " rigging or any other technical feature of theatre at your school. One of your teachers is responsible even though you may do it all with little or no supervision. Not sure what you mean by site man but assume another student, staff members should know what procedure to follow.You have done well to refrain from hanging LX when suspecting a hazard and flagging it up is absolutely correct. However you should flag it up as soon as you are aware of any problem to the relevant teacher or technician. I couldn't comment on the standard of installation from photographs but it definitely is not a students place to "go shouting at the company that fitted it." One possible scenario is that they fitted it all to specifications supplied by the school and that there are limits to what can be done with the LX rigging. Another is that they aren't theatre specialists and have done a job on behalf of the school, there could be many reasons which you are not aware of. They might get upset!Whatever, well done again for not taking chances. At my school its a bit crazy. Were closing down in 16 weeks, so were a bit short staffed, but generally, it is I who sorts out the rig, ect, but I discuss it with the relevant people first, and in some cases get them to do the work. However, thankyou for your concern. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 If what I see in the images is correct - you have these red scaff tubes running across the stage, with about a couple of metres (??) of the end unsupported? It's not clear from the pictures how the bar is actually secured - but I'm assuming the fixing to the structure, just out of view is OK? Hanging off these are another two bars running front/back on drops at two different heights. One of these is an IWB. Is this the one you tried to hang the movers on? Don't forget a mover is a very large point load, compared with a run of much lighter units, and the IWB appears to be only supported at what, 3m points? This is a bit of a bodge - but probably the only practical solution if the front/back bar has to be there, with no supports above. The scaff tubes (the red ones) will flex - the same thing happens to the overhang on the end of any bar. You then have the added problem that the bar hanging from the bar will also turn into a banana when you load it with a heavy point load. Load wise - you need to walk away from this one, because what you have is a fair bit of potential load on the end supports holding the red scaff to the roof - the system you have in place looks like it can support 'typical loads' - but you just found out that things bend, badly! If this is the case, then somebody really needs to look at what you are doing with a trained eye - as in a proper engineering eye, not our kind of eyes. Just because it bends doesn't mean it's bad - but maybe when put in, all that was asked for was a way to hang a few 650W Fresnels? Nobody knows this bar the people who did it. They could be just as horrified as you are with the idea of hanging kit like movers. It's really not something you need to be involved in at all - this has serious implications, so it becomes SEP - Someone Else's Problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRisdale Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I suspect those bars are red for a reason... Gareth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munro Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 I suspect those bars are red for a reason... Gareth. care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I doubt it - red is pretty common as a proyective finish on steel scaff. We have some exactly the same colour, and it's often seen on RSJs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I understand your concerns, but to be honest, as a student it's not your place to take on the responsibility for this - and definitely not your place to go 'shouting' at installers (unless you have a strange fondness for being told to f**k off ...). You were right to make a last-minute alteration to your plans when it became apparent that the bars woulnd't support the weight of the units that you were trying to rig on them - it would've been stupidity to have pressed on regardless, so you made the right choice to call a halt. But it's not up to you to go looking for someone to blame - you didn't spec the install, you didn't engage the contractors, you didn't manage the project and you didn't pay the bill. As Paul says, it's an SEP. To be honest, if your school is closing down in four months anyway, then why worry about it? Just make do with doing whatever you can safely achieve for that time, and then you won't have to worry about it any more because the school's shut down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I doubt it - red is pretty common as a proyective finish on steel scaff. it's also very common as a protective finish on water/heating pipes - and my first reaction on seeing those photos, was "Surely they've not hung the bars from the plumbing..." ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRisdale Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 TBH, I personally have never seen a red scaff tube in a theatre's grid (only water pipes and DREADED aspirated fire detection pipes). Turns out that such things exist after all! Just seems really strange that they didn't paint them black... Obviously there is a reason, ranging from: "So no one will get confused and hang stage lighting off them."to"I'm the architect and I say it will look nice!"to "We only quoted to paint the walls and roof black, if you want pipes as well that's extra..." Gareth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LXbydesign Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Just to mirror Gareths comment, while this post keeps trucking on . . . The school is closing in 4 months. Theres no point worrying about it and also - because of this reason, I would think that no money would get spent on fixing the problem anyway. You did the right thing and used your common sense (however if a school student shouted at me in the way you shouted at that contractor you would be fondly getting to know my size 10 steel-capped boot) So from now until closure , just keep anything heavy off those bars and be aware of whats being rigged on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossmck Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 (however if a school student shouted at me in the way you shouted at that contractor you would be fondly getting to know my size 10 steel-capped boot)From the OP;until I get screamed at by the site man doing the rigging "The *~?(! Bar is moving.I took this to mean he (the student) got shouted at (inappropriately) by an employee of the building who was doing the rigging (not the student themselves) ? Edit: Clarified quotation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRisdale Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Opinions please, before I go shouting at the company who fitted it 4 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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