Turning home/Garage into hire company

[JazzAV]

Sorry if this has already been asked..I did search for it

 

Recently a friend of mine who is a freelancer who has equipment in his garage, unloaded his kit from his van into his garage at about 3am. This lead to a confrontation over noise with his neighbour, the neighbour then decided to tell the local council that my friend was using his house as business premises.

 

The Council has written to my friend and told him to tell them whether or not business activities take place from his premises.

 

So what should he say? can the council start charging business rates in this instance?

 

He is concerned as his Mortgage also states he cannot use the house for business purposes, so is very concerned that this could lead to some major problems.

 

What does everyone else do? is it totally fine to store some kit in your garage and hire it out or is it more a case of no its not fine but no one really ever gets hassle for doing it and your friend is just unlucky???

[Stuart91]

I expect there may be a bit of a grey area as to what constitutes "business use". If all he does is stores the equipment he uses to do his job, I would say that's different from actually operating a hire business out of the house, e.g. with customers visiting to pick hires up etc. The issue might hinge on something like whether he had a limited company registered to the address since that's an easier way to draw a line.

 

As to how to respond, I'm not sure, but would tread very carefully...

 

 

(Many years ago, as I unloaded a hire van into my tenement flat, some local kids wandered by and asked "Why do you guys keep moving house all the time?")

[mac.calder]

If he is not operating a shop-front or rental pickups from his house, I cannot see how it would be different from a self-employed tradie having his work van and tools kept in his shed. If your friend drew those parallels when talking with the council, I am sure things would sort themselves out.

[Guest lightnix]

If there's nothing but your mate's equipment in the garage, then the council could quite reasonably say that it's for solely for business use and charge business rates on that part of the property. However, if he also keeps d0m35t1c or family property in there - especially something hooked-up, like a washing machine or freezer, or the family bikes and camping gear - then he should be OK. The same goes for any rooms he uses as office space.

 

That said, it does sound (from the information given) that your mate may have been a wee bit inconsiderate, making enough noise to wake the neighbours at 3am (a.k.a. The Suicide Hour) :** laughs out loud **: Such noise can be deemed a Statutory Nuisance and he should be careful about attracting unnecessary official attention - it could wind up being very expensive ;)

[Dodgecaliber]

He is doing nout wrong - Other than tipping at 3am.

 

Reply to the council telling them he is a freelance lighting engineer and those are his tools that are stored in the garage. (High value kit so I don't want it in a van that could be stolen)

 

If they ask anything more, just explain that it's no different to a joiner or electrician storing tools in his garage (amongst other junk).

 

Mortgage people won't care as the odds of them finding out let alone caring are slim.

 

Insurance wise.....might be worth mentioning, most times you are allowed 1 person per day relating to business.

 

Other than that, your mate will be fine!

[gareth]

As others have said, as long as he's not actually carrying out his business at his home (e.g. clients coming and going all the time) and is simply using his garage to store his equipment, then I can't imagine that there'd be a major problem.

 

However - if I lived next door to him, and he woke me up by unloading his van at 3am, then you can bet your boots that I'd be making as much fuss as I possibly could. As well as the council, I'd probably give the local bizzies a call and either complain about the noise and disturbance, or mention that I suspected that he was involved in some sort of illegal activities involving stolen high-end electronic equipment (why else would he be unloading it from a van in the dead of night?! :** laughs out loud **:). He lives in a residential area and should have respect for his neighbours - if he's so inconsiderate as to make enough noise to wake them at 3am then he should expect to suffer the consequences.

[Jivemaster]

He is already on the slippery slope for being a nuisance to the neighbours.

 

No-one cares about runing a business BUT you actually need planning permission etc and the type of planning permission will depend on the nature of the potential callers, and the time of the buisness working. Waking the neighbours at 3 am is not a "no impact" business activity.

 

Perhaps your friend should consult a local solicitor.

 

Using parts of a residence for business can get it both rateable as business property, and tax allowable and a business expense, BUT any capital gain acrued can become taxable and a business income for the buisniess part of the property.

Also if "Work" is carried out for business purposes then HSWA will apply in full along with all other related work legislation from which a private home address may be exempt.

[woody2]

also check the deeds of the property,they sometimes state if you can run a business or even park a van there

[AndyJones]

Maybe a simple answer is to look into securing the van so that equipment can be left in it until the morning?

If you reverse the van up against the garage door so that you can't open the rear doors then it's a start (unless your van has a side door or course! :** laughs out loud **: )

[cedd]

My kit insurance allows me to leave it in the van overnight if arrival at home is at such a time that would cause a disturbance to neighbours. As others have said, securing a van can be as simple as backing it up to a garage door, and making sure the side door is up against a wall. Then perhaps a drop in bollard to prevent it being moved forwards, and a decent alarm. We're also blessed by the fact that lots of our gear is simply too heavy to be stolen by an opportunist burglar.

I think this, however, is where the business/residential argument has a few problems. I'd say that if somebody was to break into a kit store, the chances are they're either an opportunist thief looking for tools/bikes/electrical goods with a decent market (tv's etc.). Or they're somebody who knows the kit is there and is set up and ready to remove several large, high value, small market items. Your standard house thief isnt going to be able to nick a 48 channel mixer and large speaker cabinets or flight cases.

The question is, does having this professional kit on your premises mean that the likelihood of a targeted thief breaking in to steal it, will be higher.

By using your home address, the chances are it means you're also giving it out on business cards, advertising info, invoices, whatever. If this is the case then your household insurance will want to know about it and I'd say regardless of if clients are coming to the property or not, in their eyes it'll be a business premises.

[abbotsmike]

With regards to the initial issue (noise) has nobody considered the possibility that it was simply neighbours that love to complain? I know we have a few in our street.

[paulears]

Oh come on! Unloading a van at 3am is just plain inconsiderate if you live near other people and won't endear you to anyone locally - you'll become the pia who lives over there. When I return home late at night, and that's after midnight as far as I'm concerned, then I reverse up to my house quietly, I shut the door quietly, and go inside quietly. In return, my neighbours both sides are perfectly happy to take packages in from couriers, and be decent neighbours. If I didn't act like this, they would be perfectly entitled to object to many things I might do!

[the kid]

IIR the noise thing is "nothing unnecessary after 11pm" this also includes supermarkets in town centres. I think there was a case a few years ago of a well known group off loading at stupid o'clock in a town centre and the residents got an injunction that meant they could not only no off load between 11 and x but also they could not do it at peak traffic times.

 

I think the limit is "if I would rather be in bed everyone else will be"

[JazzAV]

Yes I think we can all agree that the noise issue is totally his fault and no one is blaming the neighbour. The point of the thread is If you as a freelancer buy some kit and store it in your garage are you running a business from your home?

 

Don't most hire companies have premises where they store kit and make calls, do quotes etc but then the actually 'work takes place somewhere else.

 

The only difference is 'use' a hire companies warehouse is souly used for business where as your house/home office is not. Do you think it really comes down to ensuring you keep a washing machine in your garage? We have discovered the Law is actaully really vague and different councils view things differently.

 

I think in this instance he is going to store the kit elsewhere for a few weeks and deny everything and make it up to the neighbour. His concern as mentioned is he doesnt want to get involved in the argument and doesn't want to test what his mortgage company means by 'no commercial use or business activites'

 

I dont think anyone knows when it crosses the line between working from home and actually running a commercial business from your home, not even the council.

 

He's just gonna have to be a lot more careful in future.

[Guest lightnix]

If you as a freelancer buy some kit and store it in your garage are you running a business from your home?

Well yes, TBH. Just because you don't have clients coming around, doesn't mean you can't be said to be running a business from a given address, especially if it's the one that appears on your invoices, PLI, etc. and is registered as such with HMRC.

 

I've had to check this out in the past and as long as no part of your home is wholly given over to business, then you shouldn't be charged business rates on it. If you keep, say, a fold-up bed in your office and have guests sleep on it every now and then, then it's obviously a guest room that you're forced to use as an office. Again with the garage: A washing machine / tumble dryer / fridge / freezer - especially if there's more than one of them present and functioning, should ward off business rates and the like IIRC.

 

In fact, if you're self-employed and have to use your home for business purposes, then you can claim Use Of Home as a business expense. £9 per week doesn't seem to attract any attention :** laughs out loud **:

 

But waking up the neighbours at 3am will attract attention and avoidable attention at that. Best not to do it.