Matthew Robinson Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 I have been working with a sparky friend of mine to do some PAT testing.I'll have to go back to stealing using his tester when I need to do PAT testing*it always makes me smile a little when people talk about PAT testing- Portable Appliance Testing Testing!*cough* Ditto ;) , sorry to say Matthew but you are the only one making the mistake in this thread. Damn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Wait til you are 18, then do a proper course at a college near you. Get the proper book that they sugggest. Then if there are specific theatre related questions come back here and ask detailed questions. Look out Plasa show 2010 there may well be some kind of PAT seminars there, though possibly not a training course with pass certificate.. find the www.plasashow.com and keep up as the show develops and training and seminars are detailed. Book a ticket early, it costs more on the door. Yes PAT is important all venues want to see evidence of compliance for all kit brought in, to comply with their insurance and duty of care obligations NO PAT done by a legal minor (ie under 18) without certification or formal training does not count and may lay personal liabilities on you. PAT may be done with a single machine or with several separate machines, but the initial visual inspection will show up almost all the faults, then the tests must be amde and interpreted properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony g Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I'm pretty sure it is, I've seen him use the same one for voltage tests... It does seem quite old: it has an analogue meter and it seems generally worse for wear... Until recently I used an old Metrohm test meter that was an older version of the current fluke/megger looklikeamulteter testers so it was probably something like that, as others have said a multimeter is no good for insulation tests. Some sparks who don't do much patting do use their universal test set (which tests insulation) for PAT testing, which is fine. Just out of interest is your friend a fully qualified spark or still an apprentice. As I've said to a poster on another thread, why not get enrolled on a 1 day City & Guilds pat testing course (2377 I think, from memory), buy a basic automatic tester and make some money out of it. BUT if you havn't done the training and don't have the proper equipment, for your own and others safety don't do PAT tsting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Robinson Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Just out of interest is your friend a fully qualified spark or still an apprentice.He's an industrial spark (not theatre), just coming up to retiring. I don't think he has the domestic qualifications like the NIC EIC, but I wouldn't like to say for definite! As I've said to a poster on another thread, why not get enrolled on a 1 day City & Guilds pat testing course (2377 I think, from memory), buy a basic automatic tester and make some money out of it. BUT if you havn't done the training and don't have the proper equipment, for your own and others safety don't do PAT testing.Good idea, just I'm not really in a position to do that kind of thing at the moment (see previous post(s)). It may be a good sideline when I've graduated though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony g Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Just out of interest is your friend a fully qualified spark or still an apprentice.He's an industrial spark (not theatre), just coming up to retiring. I don't think he has the domestic qualifications like the NIC EIC, but I wouldn't like to say for definite! As I've said to a poster on another thread, why not get enrolled on a 1 day City & Guilds pat testing course (2377 I think, from memory), buy a basic automatic tester and make some money out of it. BUT if you havn't done the training and don't have the proper equipment, for your own and others safety don't do PAT testing.Good idea, just I'm not really in a position to do that kind of thing at the moment (see previous post(s)). It may be a good sideline when I've graduated though! Seriously though PAT testing paid my way through an electrical engineering degree, I left with no student loan, so for a day on a £150 course, insurance at around £80 and a £450 machine it was a very good investment!, bear it in mind!! Best Tony A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. He's an industrial spark (not theatre), just coming up to retiring. I don't think he has the domestic qualifications like the NIC EIC, but I wouldn't like to say for PS Just so you know, NICEIC isn't a qualification, it's one of a number of professional bodies (clubs if you like) that perform two functions, they randomly check that relevant standards are adhered to and carry out a process called "notification" which has to be done for a small number of domestic jobs that fall under part P of the building regs. Although most of us (me included) are members of one of these, there is nothing that says you have to be (only if you do domestic work it would be very expensive to do the notification yourself, you'd never make a profit!) and there are plenty of very competent and good sparks, especially those nearing retirement who are not registered but still first rate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Robinson Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 Seriously though PAT testing paid my way through an electrical engineering degree, I left with no student loan, so for a day on a £150 course, insurance at around £80 and a £450 machine it was a very good investment!, bear it in mind!!So how did you manage to get that to work? Just so you know, NICEIC isn't a qualification, it's one of a number of professional bodies ... that perform two functions, they randomly check that relevant standards are adhered to and carry out a process called "notification" which has to be done for a small number of domestic jobs that fall under part P of the building regs.I must admit, I know virtually nothing about NIC EIC, it just came up in conversation that he wasn't registered with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony g Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Seriously though PAT testing paid my way through an electrical engineering degree, I left with no student loan, so for a day on a £150 course, insurance at around £80 and a £450 machine it was a very good investment!, bear it in mind!!So how did you manage to get that to work? Just so you know, NICEIC isn't a qualification, it's one of a number of professional bodies ... that perform two functions, they randomly check that relevant standards are adhered to and carry out a process called "notification" which has to be done for a small number of domestic jobs that fall under part P of the building regs.I must admit, I know virtually nothing about NIC EIC, it just came up in conversation that he wasn't registered with them. As to how I got the work, I put my name about and the work came, bear in mind most businesses have to do or get PAT testing done, as do landlords, schools the list goes on, so there's plenty of potential customers. Most electricians, like me hate/don't have the time for it (once you get into frying bigger fish it can be a bit repetitive, but beats shelf stacking) and will gladly farm PAT work out to a willing and qualified person so long as they get a cut. you can charge somewhere in the order of £1.35 per appliance, and in say an office with mostly modern, double insulated appliances get about 20-25 done in an hour once you are used to doing it and get going at a reasonable speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collism Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Is it pricey to get insurance to do PAT testing for others? I'm just weighing up the economics of it at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony g Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Is it pricey to get insurance to do PAT testing for others? I'm just weighing up the economics of it at the moment. My trades liability insurance that covers me for 2Million for all types of Domestic & Commercial electrical installation including working at heights and PAT testing costs me £89 per year from Swinton Insurance. You would need their electricians policy which is the one I have, there are no qualification requirements to take the policy, but in the event of a claim you would only be covered on what you are deemed competant to do, therefore if you have the C&G2377 only you would be covered for PAT testing only. Most insurers do the same, you can increase the cover up to £10m, but most places only want £2m in my experience. A really good PAT tester at the moment is the Kewtech KT70, its very light, very quick and has a soft test function for electronic items and comes in at about £450 from City Electrical Factors. There are of course bigger models that alow you to use barcoding and pre-devised asset lists, which is essential for larger jobs. Pat test courses either the C&G 2377 or an alternative (there are a few others run by other recognised exam boards) costs around £150 and takes a day, If you already know your stuff you can take the exam only for about £45 (its a peice of cake if you know what you are doing - as are most things come to think of it!!) To give you an idea of pricing, we charge £1.00 per appliance (test only, if it fails it fails), £1.35 for test and minor repairs (ie: re-making a plug) with a minimum of £25 if they are not a PAT account customer (we have several auction houses & pawn brokers that we visit weekly, they pay monthly so there is no minimum) - Then we charge £25 per appliance within reason for repairs, including parts if they are small, for example I've just put a new IEC connector on the back of a Marshall amp, a new lead on a henry and a new P28 holder in a patt23N and they were charged at £25 each, the work being done at our workshop and the items then returned. Our main customers are private businesses and schools. Hope this helps you work out the economics of the job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 A really good PAT tester at the moment is the Kewtech KT70, ...Don't you mean the KT71? If so, +1 on that recommendation. The link I've posted is a very good price for that unit, I can recommend the supplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony g Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 A really good PAT tester at the moment is the Kewtech KT70, ...Don't you mean the KT71? If so, +1 on that recommendation. The link I've posted is a very good price for that unit, I can recommend the supplier. Yep, sorry KT71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collism Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Thanks for the above - its a massive help. Do you have to get the PAT machine calibrated each year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony g Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Thanks for the above - its a massive help. Do you have to get the PAT machine calibrated each year? Yes you should to comply with requirements, many electrical wholesalers have calibration days where you take your machine in and they do it while you wait, costs about £50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy1977 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Mathew, you need to be 18 to be able to conduct Portable appliace testing unspervised, to do them C&G2377 there minimum age is 18 anyway. You need a calibrated tester, some liability insurance and be able to prove compettency. Regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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