CRB and ISA checks

[Jivemaster]

I've just spent some time reading the ISA checks guidelines.

 

For ISA satisfaction and compliance a "child "is anyone under 18. SO this means that if you employ a person under 18 all staff and visitors have to be CRB and ISA approved. CRB costs about £50 and ISA costs again.

 

So the question is: What will this do to the employability of 16 & 17 year olds?

 

Theatre seems familiar with the regs about child performers ie under 16, but for child employees the answer is simply NO because the regs dont allow it. Now the ISA increases the age to 18.

 

Are 16 & 17 year olds going to simply sacked to protect the employer against having to CRB and ISA check every possible employee and casual and possibly every visiting service engineer, tester or inspector.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8156124.stm

http://www.isa-gov.org.uk/pdf/20090618-FAQ_current.pdf

http://www.isa-gov.org.uk/pdf/GuidanceNote...gProcessweb.pdf

[Ger]

I had my CRB before I was 18 the reason was that was working at part of a new theatre company and would be coming into contact with other children. But nobody ever questioned the fact the I was 17 at the time it came back. It might have to do with the fact that in Northern Ireland the check most people have is a POCAVA.

 

P.Gerard

[andy_s]

I expect it will all be fine when they raise the school leaving age to eighteen so no one is allowed to leave school and get a job (or perhaps more cynically, inflate the unemployment figures) until they are no longer "children".

 

in our Child Protection Policy (doesn't everyone have one?) we define "children" as 11 and under, "young people" as 12 and above. According to the Children Act 1989 & 2004, young people up to the age of 18 are entitled to protection, so this is quite a longstanding thing. It's not the age that's changed, its the method of providing or "guaranteeing" protection. (note the cynical quotation marks)

[kerry davies]

Assuming that those having significant access to children, for example overnighters, one-to-ones etc, already have enhanced CRB checks, then there is no need to register with ISA for 4/5 years. Within that time it should become irrelevant as far as under 18 employees are concerned because the governments aim is to provide education or training for everyone under 18. Hence no "employees" under the registered age.

This may or may not happen BUT consider this scenario:

All supermarkets having to ISA all staff because they might just serve children/vulnerable adults.

Every public transport employee the same.

Every corner shop, and nearly all other shops, registering.

Anyone working in any public place having to register, and all that is besides the 11,000,000 plus they expect to be registered! By an already overloaded, Capita run, CRB system!

 

It just ain't going to happen and the ISA know it now. There is going to be a massive amount of sifting and sorting if it is ever to work and that is probably why the ISA "How to apply" page on their website is still blank (until October something). I spoke to a very helpful person there earlier this summer when I had my enhanced CRB renewed and the basic answer was to wait. They did reassure me that future registration fees would include current costs for CRB checks and that there would be no duplication ... my own concerns about paying twice being foremost in mind!

is a good(ish), simplified Q&A on the ISA implementation but with five years to sort it out and a fresh enhanced CRB, I am not particularly concerned .... I'll burn that bridge when I get to it.

[sleah]

Unless the regulations have changed..... it isn't every single person who comes in contact with children that has to be checked, it's those who will potentially be left unsupervised by a CRB checked adult.

 

I work in a school and we don't CRB every visitor, parent or contractor that comes on site - that would be impossible. Contractors are only checked if they will be left without supervision from a staff member.

Visitors are always with a staff member so checking isn't required.

 

CRB checking is yet another area where there has been plenty of Urban Myths :** laughs out loud **: I take what I read in the papers and hear on the news with a pinch of salt.

 

The only reason I suspect the Government will want to CRB someone reading to a nursery class is so they don't have to pay for the classroom assistant's time to sit and supervise when they could be spending the time filling in forms. <_<

They should only need checking if they are to be left alone with the children. Any decent teacher or classroom assistant wouldn't leave their class alone with a stranger anyway!

Recent incidents regarding 'bad' teachers actually proves the point that CRB checking isn't any guarentee of childrens' safety, it doesn't protect children, however it does go someway to help protect children. It just needs a common sense approach, something that beaurocrats sadly lack :huh:

[Wilflet]

I expect it will all be fine when they raise the school leaving age to eighteen so no one is allowed to leave school and get a job (or perhaps more cynically, inflate the unemployment figures) until they are no longer "children".

 

Dosnt stop part time work.

[GRisdale]

Suddenly I feel like I've stumbled upon a thread discussing an episode of Yes Minister...

 

Gareth.

[steve h]

Slightly off topic but along the same lines!

 

Our school prize giving last night had an interesting talk last night about the standardisation of age. This would mean that at a certain age a person goes from being a child to adult and things such as driving, voting, sex, drinking etc would all happen at that age. This would effect work as well as even if a person was working under that age they would still be classed as a child. Currently it is in its early stages in government but seems likes a good idea to me for clearing up alot of grey areas!

 

Steve

[ale.heat]

Hi,

 

I recently have been offered the chance to do a school production and a youth theatre production lighting design. I have a CRB check for when I was helping out at a local scout troop. When checking to see if it was valid for other work it seems that mine only covers work within the scout troop. Does anyone know if you can get a CRB check that covers you for every time you would work in an environment with children. I have been doing some research (reading websites and forums) and so far have drawn a blank on it. So far it seems that every time you take part in work where children are involved you need a check. I would be grateful if someone could shed some light on the situation.

 

 

Cheers

 

Alex

[Andrew C]

from being a child to adult and things such as driving, voting, sex, drinking etc would all happen at that age.

I can just see that working! You can't drive or f... until you are 17/18; conversly allowing 15/16 year olds to drive cars and/or drink!

[Jivemaster]

AleHeat -you do not get the CRB the organisation engaging you does, you only get a copy. However some organisations will accept the copy, other organisations will see the copy that you have and get their copy by reference to the serial number, which makes the checking quicker.

 

Single age.- It makes administrative paperwork easy but makes a mockery of growing up no-one "switches on" to being a responsible person usually it happens gradually

[TomHoward]

Does anyone know if you can get a CRB check that covers you for every time you would work in an environment with children. I have been doing some research (reading websites and forums) and so far have drawn a blank on it. So far it seems that every time you take part in work where children are involved you need a check. I would be grateful if someone could shed some light on the situation.

I don't believe you can, because when you get a CRB disclosure a copy is sent directly to the school / scout troop as well, and this is the copy that they take notice of. Also, other occurances may have happened over time. The CRB is being phased out in favour of a new system - see the other thread on ISA Registration in the Next Generation forum.

[ale.heat]

Hi,

 

I have always felt that the CRB check is kind of like a PAT test. It checks for safety at the time of the test but the next day the equipment could get damaged and therefore the PAT isn't much use. I will do some more investigations and check out all the facts. I will also have a look at the other thread. Better get in touch with the organisations and school to see what they say about it!

 

Cheers for your replies.

 

 

Alex

[paulears]

There is no requirement to be checked if you just happen to work in a building that has young people in it from time to time. It's what kind of contact you have that matters. I've had clarification on this from the exam board I work for. I go into a school or a college to carry out my work. The exam board have no intention of carrying out CRB checks on people like me. Our instructions are simply to ensure we are not put into the position where we are left alone with the students. If we're put into this position, and cannot solve it, then we simply leave. I've done hundreds of these visits and only in very few of them is there a problem. Some schools actually do it wrong! You turn up, sit in reception, and then they send for a student - often it's a girl, on her own - and she then takes you to the department you'll be working in. This, on the new advice given to me, is not acceptable - but the school find this an acceptable way to get complete strangers to where they are going? Rather odd, but will I have the courage to say "er, sorry, but I cannot go with her without an adult escort?" I don't know.

 

If, like me, you often work on dance shows in a professional venue - do you need the crb? I don't think you do because you don't get left alone with them, so have no chance to exert influence on them. If people are genuinely worried that this is a problem, then getting the CRB won't really make you any different, will it? Everybody who commits any crime would have passed the check, up to the moment they decide to do it for the very first time.

 

When somebody insists you have to have one, that's the time - before is a bit pointless from a practical perspective.

[Sparx]

There is no requirement to be checked if you just happen to work in a building that has young people in it from time to time. It's what kind of contact you have that matters. I've had clarification on this from the exam board I work for. I go into a school or a college to carry out my work. The exam board have no intention of carrying out CRB checks on people like me. Our instructions are simply to ensure we are not put into the position where we are left alone with the students. If we're put into this position, and cannot solve it, then we simply leave. I've done hundreds of these visits and only in very few of them is there a problem. Some schools actually do it wrong! You turn up, sit in reception, and then they send for a student - often it's a girl, on her own - and she then takes you to the department you'll be working in. This, on the new advice given to me, is not acceptable - but the school find this an acceptable way to get complete strangers to where they are going? Rather odd, but will I have the courage to say "er, sorry, but I cannot go with her without an adult escort?" I don't know.

 

If, like me, you often work on dance shows in a professional venue - do you need the crb? I don't think you do because you don't get left alone with them, so have no chance to exert influence on them. If people are genuinely worried that this is a problem, then getting the CRB won't really make you any different, will it? Everybody who commits any crime would have passed the check, up to the moment they decide to do it for the very first time.

 

When somebody insists you have to have one, that's the time - before is a bit pointless from a practical perspective.

 

Generally, in my eyes, unsupervised contact with children/vulnerable adults constitutes getting a CRB check done.