Foldback Replacement in Medium Church

[zachhwilliams]

Hi,

 

At a church where I work as a multimedia technician about 1-2years ago they had a new AV system installed for 17.5k. Only problem is, it's kinda rubbish.

 

We use a Allen and Heath PA12-CP mixing desk and have two massive powered folbacks patched through XLR. We urgently need some smaller speakers, and as we can't use passive (I think) because it goes XLR out, through multicore into the speaker is there any small powered foldbacks around that we can just put power in, take the XLR from the old foldbacks out and put in to the new ones. When I say 'small' I mean roughly the size of a http://www.global-9.com/en/productshow.php...7&kind=show but it needs to be powered. Help.

[Rob_Beech]

Hi,

 

we'd really need an indication of budget per box. Also, what sort of thing is going through them, if its lots of stuff then small doesn't work too well.

 

Have a look at the NuQ 8 DP http://www.turbosound.com/showroom/nuq8dp/index.html Unfortunately they don't do a powered version of the NuQ 6. But the 8 is very compact and a stunning sounding box. We're 4 figure per box territory though!

 

Rob

[zachhwilliams]

Well, I have no idea of cost, they don't spend much on technical anymore. It's a church, they don't understand a technicians needs. I will try and sell the current ones, I will get the model/make and post it here, and then maybe you have an idea of what I could fetch for them. The money would then be used to buy new ones.

 

Hi,

 

we'd really need an indication of budget per box. Also, what sort of thing is going through them, if its lots of stuff then small doesn't work too well.

 

Have a look at the NuQ 8 DP http://www.turbosound.com/showroom/nuq8dp/index.html Unfortunately they don't do a powered version of the NuQ 6. But the 8 is very compact and a stunning sounding box. We're 4 figure per box territory though!

 

Rob

[Matt Riley]

Hi Zach,

 

Im wondering why you 'urgently need some smaller foldbacks'. The only reason I can see for needing to downsize speakers is for reduced transport/storage space or for aesthetics. What's the problem?

Depending on what you see as appropriate size there are a number of options:

1) TC electronic voicesolo mic stand mounted speakers (you'll pretty much need one for each musician though)

2) Wired in ear monitors can work well for an incredibly low price - have a quick search, as there's been lots of discussion about these in the past

3) If you can cope with purchasing an amp and using passive boxes, then you'll be a lot better off in terms of options including the EM acoustics EMS 61; D&B E3 etc etc

[zachhwilliams]

The folbacks are on the stage for the brass band (about 30 of them) so they can hear what is being said on the meeting. The ones the moment are too big and are causing an obstrction. I will have a look when I'm there tonight and see if there is an amp output, if so then, problem (almost) solved, apart from I would have to put the cabling along the wall. Thanks for your help, I will try and get more details by tomorrow :blink:

 

Zach

Hi Zach,

 

Im wondering why you 'urgently need some smaller foldbacks'. The only reason I can see for needing to downsize speakers is for reduced transport/storage space or for aesthetics. What's the problem?

Depending on what you see as appropriate size there are a number of options:

1) TC electronic voicesolo mic stand mounted speakers (you'll pretty much need one for each musician though)

2) Wired in ear monitors can work well for an incredibly low price - have a quick search, as there's been lots of discussion about these in the past

3) If you can cope with purchasing an amp and using passive boxes, then you'll be a lot better off in terms of options including the EM acoustics EMS 61; D&B E3 etc etc

[Simon Lewis]

Hi, Zach,

 

Can you tell us what the problem with the existing foldback speakers is? You mention that you think the system is "kind of rubbish" and that "they don't understand a technician's needs" but what is the church leadership saying? Are they asking you to change the boxes over? Is this change being made to suit you, or the other users of the equipment?

 

I'm not suggesting that equipment that no longer meets a need shouldn't be changed, but would point out the equipment selection for a house of worship isn't always based on its intrinsic 'audio merit'.

 

Simon

[tolley1466]

apart from I would have to put the cabling along the wall. Thanks for your help, I will try and get more details by tomorrow :blink:

What's wrong with having the amps on stage?

 

Hi Zach,

3) If you can cope with purchasing an amp and using passive boxes, then you'll be a lot better off in terms of options including the EM acoustics EMS 61; D&B E3 etc etc

 

Dobson Sound have some E3's with NL4 connection in their ex hire sales.

[zachhwilliams]

right,

 

The current monitors are too big. The desk (Allen and Heath PA12-CP) has two built in amps for the main hall. The desk has got a 'Slave Out', would that do to put an amp in and have some passive foldbacks (I'm more of a lampie, but I do a little bit of sound)

 

The current foldbacks we have are RCF 4Pro 3002-SMA (http://www.rcf.it/en_US/web/rcf/products/p...s/4pro-3002-sma)

 

Does anyone have any idea how much we'd get for them, they've only be used for the preacher talking so the band can hear them.

 

Much appreciated,

 

Zach

[Simon Lewis]

Zach,

 

I've not used the speakers you've linked to, but they are from a reputable manufacturer, seem to have good quality components and are selling for around £950 each from web suppliers. Also, whilst not too light, they're not the largest boxes in the world?!

 

If the only use you put them too is as a monitor for the preacher mic, then perhaps they are slight overkill. However, they are likely to be well behaved, and it's quite possible that any alternatives won't provide such good pattern control and feedback rejection.

 

Instead of placing these boxes on the floor, can you place then on small tables to either side of the brass band? Could you fit external top hats and stand mount them?

You could use small personal monitors like Galaxy Hotspots on mic stands, but I suspect you'll find the audio quality isn't as good.

 

Most churches who pay out large amounts on a sound system see it as a capital purchase that they won't have to revisit for another 10 or 20 years. Is the church leadership asking you to sell these boxes, or is the impetus coming from somewhere else?

 

Overall, I'm not convinced that solving the "obstruction" issue won't cause other problems.

 

Simon

[zachhwilliams]

The aim is to sell the boxes, they are to big. The Global 9, G6 or 8 are the size that we want. I think what I will do eventually is get a seperate amp and put them through.

 

The money to get the new monitors will be the money raised by the old monitors. So, if we can find something smaller, yes we will sell them but, money is tight.

 

Thanks

 

Zach

[revbobuk]

I would have said that for the use you plan to put them to, the Galaxy hotspots would be fine - because they are small and discreet, you could even use more than 2 - they come in active and passive variants, so you can run a passive from an active. They fit on mic stands, so they can be placed nearer to the musicians. Take a look here if you feel these might suit. They are not uncommon in church settings, and work well where I've seen them.

[zachhwilliams]

The solution is here (I think)!

 

I hope to get some Phonic SEp 206 Installation Speakers, thanks to Chris May for suggesting them :unsure:

 

I will see how it goes

 

Thanks

 

Zach

[revbobuk]

Got some of those. Not a patch on the Galaxy, and bigger. But cheap!

 

Plus points: balanced inputs, no user controls.

Minus points: looser bass, more coloured midrange, lower power than Galaxy. A bit ugly, no stand mounting.

 

You will notice the difference - the RCF are in a whole different league with respect to quality and power handling. Don't throw them in a skip unless it happens to be near me!

[zachhwilliams]

Hi again,

 

Thanks for the advice, the Phonic SEp 206 seems a lot cheaper, at £140.00 for the pair.

It's only a church, and the quality does not need to be perfect, just enough for the band to hear the preacher.

 

I will look into the Galaxy Hotspots, but I think that the SEp 206 seems the right choice, if we get those then I'm sure we will keep the RCFs

 

I will keep you posted,

 

Zach

[revbobuk]

I'll overlook the 'It's only a church' - just this once (see profile and avatar) :unsure: !!