northern lights

[godd2]

Hello,

 

This fall we are doing a production that requires an effect that simulates the northern lights. Since we want it to be dark upstage, the white cyc with lighting on it doesnt work.

So I have an idea but have some questions about it.

 

My idea is to use a smoke machine or hazer (not sure which would work better) and then use lights from different locations to create color effects fading in and out.

 

A few problems with this idea I am struggling with. first, I do not want the smoke to go downstage since I do not really want to see the beams of lights going on the actors. so my thought right now is to use a black scrim to hold as much smoke upstage as possible but yet see the light. I would also incorporate a few fans on a batton to push that smoke away from downstage. Does anyone think this may work? I like the smoke or hazer idea since I think it would give me an organic look to the light in space. The second problem is the smoke detector situation as discussed in other forums.

 

My second option for this effect is to use fiberoptics that we have and will purchase more of. Here I think I could use a number of different light sources with different colors and get a good color mixing/fading effect as well. I dont think this would be as effective as the smoke idea.

 

any advise or other options anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated.

[Brian]

Multiple grey scrims upstage with the bottom cut to simulate the undulating effect you need?

[Wingwalker]

Depending on what size stage you have may determine your volume output. Haze will undoubtedly be better than smoke and I'm presuming you will be using fresnels rather than profiles to give you a softer wash rather than defined light. You may also find that by using LED Pars will do the trick too giving you multiple yet smooth colour changes. As for having haze away from the cast - slightly more tricky but suggest the best method would be for you to use a hazer(s) with variable output such as the Jem Technofog. Couple this with the minature 12v fans (like the ones you can get to sit on the dashboard of your car) and they can sit in the wings directing where you want the haze to go.

 

Hope that helps :-)

 

David.

[FLB]

Hi

Trying to control smoke like that may be a headache to say the least.

 

30 odd years ago, I saw a good northern lights type effect done by hanging that old opaque chasing ropelight from the 80's a foot or 2 behind the white cyc. Using different sections & different positioning of the ropelight sections & different colour chases it was very effective & controllable.

 

With the vast array of LED stuff around now, this may be a route to investigate & easy to try out.

 

This should work on any colour cloth, as long as it is dense enough to hide the lightsources, like rear projection screen ??

If the existing cyc is too far U/S, you could have a separate 'cyc' where you want it.

 

 

Hope that helps & good luck.

[godd2]

thank you all for your suggestions.....the width of our stage is around 53ft.....so I may need 2 hazers? I was thinking about placing fans on a baton and behind a a set piece that spans the stage.

 

would I still need the black scrim with say 5 fans going to keep the haze up stage?

 

someone mentioned the rope light idea and that is an option with fiber optics we have and will purchase on a black curtain but I would like to get the more organic look the haze I think would do if I can.

 

 

thank you

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

can anyone suggest the size of a hazer I would need to buy/rent for this size of stage? or maybe rent 2?

[godd2]

it was suggested to me that using a fog machine with a "hazer" like fluid would work well and would not stay in the air as long as a traditional hazer would, any thought on that?

 

for the amount of money it costs to rent a df-50 for a week ($225), would it be better just to buy 2 of these fazer units, like the antari z300? for what we do in high school theater, with the right fluid this may work well for us. we wont often use a full haze on a stage for an extended time I dont think. opinions?

[godd2]

so where I am at with this effect is the following:

 

1.have bought a lower end hazer and am using water based fluid.

2.since the fire alarms are an issue, we have trap doors in the ceiling cracked open to allow escape before the haze builds up. does effect the hang time though. anyone think that oil based fluid may do better in this situation?

3. so began testing yesterday and found that the fresnels I had hoped to use dont really show up well, so I am going to have to use an ellipsoidal. since I do not want "beams" of light but more area of light, I am thinking of using a 50 degree source four with diffusion gel on it and then pointing it up.

Do you guys think this will give me a decent spread that isnt too defined? should I run the barrel also to make it more hazy? would the source 4 with out any lens maybe be bright enough to show up unlike the fresnel?

 

thanx for the advise

[niclights]

anyone think that oil based fluid may do better in this situation?

Yes, definitely. Mineral oil approx 1micron particle, glycol approx 20. The much smaller particle size means it hangs far longer. It 'might' not be a problem with smoke detectors either.

 

But I think you are chasing the wrong solution. I just don't see it working. Personally I'd stay with lamps pointing across a backdrop at a very shallow angle. Narrow angle profiles ideally with slow rotating effect (gobo/prism) and/or movement in the backdrop itself (fans/person). I wouldn't worry about the dark material - colours will still show up surprisingly well.

[Robin D]

Could I cross link to a post in another thread from the OP on this same subject here. Look towards the end of the page with the following responses.

[godd2]

anyone think that oil based fluid may do better in this situation?

Yes, definitely. Mineral oil approx 1micron particle, glycol approx 20. The much smaller particle size means it hangs far longer. It 'might' not be a problem with smoke detectors either.

 

But I think you are chasing the wrong solution. I just don't see it working. Personally I'd stay with lamps pointing across a backdrop at a very shallow angle. Narrow angle profiles ideally with slow rotating effect (gobo/prism) and/or movement in the backdrop itself (fans/person). I wouldn't worry about the dark material - colours will still show up surprisingly well.

 

 

 

after experiments yesterday, I am not overly happy with how it looks. I think the haze quality is low. more than likely because I bought a very low end hazer, I think it is connected with the antari company?? anyway, my director really wants me to continue on this course. After seeing it I agree with either backdrop or maybe fiberoptics. the problem I have with the backdrop is our black backdrop is going to have fiber optics for star lights on it so I dont know how moving stars would look. but thanx for the advise.

[Sam_Lowers]

What about a font on profile onto your back drop with an FX wheel on the front.

If you use a mix of pretty funky gel's it could look really cool.

[Grahame]

I would forget about the haze until you get the lighting effect right. Haze isn't going to magically produce it for you if you're not lighting it correctly.

 

Scottish Ballet did this for the flying sequence 'The Snowman' some years ago - back-project onto a dark grey plastic cyc/ BP screen, using profiles and a suitable gobo, with a rotating coloured animation disk or coloured glass rotating gobo if your profiles are suitable. Add a couple of moving clouds as well if you can - even a glass moon gobo, perhaps?

Hang a black gauze a metre or so downstage of the plastic, which you can chuck a few more gobos onto from the front or sides. Possibly add a touch of floodbar between the two. If everything is just out of focus, you can produce a lovely slow-changing multicoloured aurora.

I also like Brian's suggestion of a cut grey gauze border with an undulating edge - hung between the black gauze and the plastic with a touch of greeny floodbar might look pretty good. We couldn't do that in The Snowman as we had two people flying in that gap! B-)

[Stuart Basson]

A pity you can't use the cyc. The bounce back from a source 4 pointed at a 3 foot square sheet of acrylic plastic sheet hits our cyc this week and accidentally makes a super Northern Lights effect.

[godd2]

just an update how this effect worked out....overall it actually worked pretty well. I used 6 source-4s on the ground and matched them with 6 on a batton at about 18ft. I used a cheap hazer so the effect would have been even better I think if I could have afforded a better hazer but it did give us a nice fluid lighting effect. I wish I would have had a black scrim to help control the haze from going into the house but overall it didnt make much difference. overall worked pretty good wished I had more instruments and circuits to expand the effect.