Questions

[Aidan]

Alright guys,

Im curious as a relation to the way I use my gear, I know how to set it all up and the uses of the equipment but im lacking on the full knowledge of it all.

like graphics, I stick them on FOH, monitors, etc where needed. and then play around till it sounds good.

same with compressors and gates, I just mess around with them until it works.

 

But im fed up of doing that now, can anyone explain the correct uses and frequencies etc that your ment to play with.

like how to compress/gate instruments properly, how to compress vocals properly etc..

 

bassically, just blurt out all your knowledge. and we all love doing that =D

 

 

cheers guys :D

xx

[johndenim]

It's not as easy as saying " how do you set this up?".

 

There are some important factors you need to consider.

 

Are you talking of live sound or recording?

[Aidan]

yeah sorry buddy. It is live work im on about here.

 

Mainly compressing/gates on the:

Vocals

Drums

And other instruments

 

also do you compress lavier radio mics?

 

and the general eq of foh pa.

 

x

[Doug Siddons]

Aidan has been running A&M along side Mat Newman since 2003 until Mat's resignment in 2007. He has studied Btec in Technical Theatre and came out with two Distinctions (2x A*) in Lighting Operation, Sound Operation & Stage Crewing. (from your website)

 

Oh dear, didn't your Btec in Technical theatre with distinction in sound, teach you all this or at least give you a clue?

[Rob_Beech]

I suspect not, and it won't be the first time this genuinely hasn't happened, or has happened, or ...something.

[Trunker]

Aidan has been running A&M along side Mat Newman since 2003 until Mat's resignment in 2007. He has studied Btec in Technical Theatre and came out with two Distinctions (2x A*) in Lighting Operation, Sound Operation & Stage Crewing. (from your website)

 

Oh dear, didn't your Btec in Technical theatre with distinction in sound, teach you all this or at least give you a clue?

 

Well my uni degree in Sound Tech didn't teach me how to record a band properly, so possibly not. Education is great for theory, but pants for experience!!! You only gain experience by doing the job, making mistakes, correcting them and then remembering..

[Matt Riley]

Well, you've got the general idea with graphics alright! You have, however, inadvertently stumbled on the answer yourself - you have to find what works for each given situation using your ears. Train them with something like simple feedback trainer, then you can work out the fundamental frequencies of a bass or a kick drum yourself. Having said that, some engineers love to take out 125 hz before even listening to monitors. I have a personal habit of hovering around the 4k mark first when ringing out cheap wedges.

 

In terms of compressors, you need to first have a knowledge of what each knob does... here goes

1) threshold = sets the dB level at which the compressor kicks in

2) ratio = sets how much the compressor comes in

3) knee = how hard the compressor comes in

4) attack = how quickly the compressor comes in after the sound exceeds the threshold

5) release = how quickly the compressor cuts out after the sound goes below the threshold again

6) makeup gain = boosts the overall level once you've done all that compression.

7) link buttons, auto buttons, other miscalleneous tosh - not worth worrying about for your purposes - leave off

8) sidechain input = taking the signal from another instrument and having it trigger the compressor on your instrument.

 

So you need to take some time to have a play with this stuff with just you and a mic and get a bit of a set of 'toolbox' starting settings that you can turn to as a starting point. There seem to be two main uses of compression from talking to engineers - I almost never use the second one but you might like to. The first is gentle, tasteful compression of vocals and acoustic sources. Start with the threshold wound out, ratio at 1:2/1:2.5, attack and release at 12 o clock, and no make up gain, and work from there. With the second approach (which is used on stuff like bass and snare and kick), start out the same, but use a much higher ratio, much faster attack, play around with the release, and you're more likely to have to heap on the makeup gain.

 

I'm gonna leave gates to someone else, but rane have some really good notes on it if you fancy googling.

 

I'm gonna finish with the idea that heavy use of reverbs kinda went out of fashion in the 80s and most venues have enough natural reverb for it to be a bad idea to put any more in there.

 

HTH

 

M

[stagemanagement]

I just mess around with them until it works.

 

 

Seems you've already cracked it!!

 

Every source and situation is going to be different and there very, very few hard & fast rules or recognised settings that will work every time.

 

Using gates: You're using gates to try and minimise the "spill" from other sources coming through that particular microphone. In a live situation that will primarily be on drums and percussion, where the "sources" are very close together; using gates on drum mic's can help you tighten up the overall drum sound.

 

Compression: Well, this used to be a finger when I started learning live sound techniques - You pull the fader back when the "talent" gets carried away! The main things to learn with compressors are when to use the different "knee" settings - on drums you'll generally want a hard knee setting so that the compression is immediate when the threshold is reached. With vocals or stringed instruments/brasses, a soft knee setting will allow the compression to be applied in a softer fashion, preventing such a drastic change in the sound when the threshold has been reached.

 

As for graphics - it's best to cut rather than boost and try not to fall into the "it looks right" trap; and contrary to what a lot of people may tell you, both sides do not have to be the same. Again, "playing about with it until it sounds right" is the only hard & fast rule of usage!

[Aidan]

Firstly in respons to Matt Riley & Stagemanagment, that was just what I was looking for. Nice to know that I was in someway doing it correctly. It was good help :unsure:

 

And the drew guy who quoted my site, was slightly scary and shocked me. and as for me learning that in Btec, not an option as the school where I was taught is full of rubbish equipment. Didnt have any compressors/gates and the foh an monitor rigs were jbl eons so we all know from our 'degrees' that there crap and can barely handle voacals in a big space, so not much room for anything else.

 

Cheers for your help though guys.

xx

[Biro]

Firstly in respons to Matt Riley & Stagemanagment, that was just what I was looking for. Nice to know that I was in someway doing it correctly. It was good help :unsure:

 

And the drew guy who quoted my site, was slightly scary and shocked me. and as for me learning that in Btec, not an option as the school where I was taught is full of rubbish equipment. Didnt have any compressors/gates and the foh an monitor rigs were jbl eons so we all know from our 'degrees' that there crap and can barely handle voacals in a big space, so not much room for anything else.

 

Cheers for your help though guys.

xx

 

Im sorry but how on earth can you say that. 'JBL Eon's are cr*p'??!?!?!?

 

Given the right situation, I'm sure that they are fine.

[jacet]

And the drew guy who quoted my site, was slightly scary and shocked me.

 

The inter-web is a scary place, perhaps if people thought more carefully about what they put on their website / facebook / myspace etc they might find they get taken a little more seriously. I'm guessing most people googled your company after looking at your profile (I know I did) to try to find a little more about you as the more people know the more they can help.

 

Also, your upcoming events are a year out of date.

 

Also, get a hair cut

[Simon Lewis]

.... and the foh an monitor rigs were jbl eons so we all know from our 'degrees' that there crap and can barely handle voacals in a big space, so not much room for anything else.

 

My degree (not in 'live sound') gave me quite a reasonable amount of practical experience and covered a significant amount of theory.

 

Of course, I learned more practical things when working, but it was the "soft skills" that helped me to understand them and to find out and make use of information that was missing.

 

One of the things I learnt early on was that it's rarely the equipment, but what you can do with it that counts. I was stunned at the light show at a gig the band I worked for played at Butlins once. The lighting guy had about a dozen or so generics and a two preset board, but you'd have never guessed it. Strangely enough, he didn't look at it and say "this is crap, I can't work with this rubbish".

 

EONs aren't a "bad" loudspeaker. They have strengths and limitations. The good engineer learns what those limits are, uses the tools that are available to him or her and gets on with the job. Bitching about gear rarely does anyone any favours - but does create a somewhat negative impression of the person in the minds of others.

 

Simon

[paulears]

Have a look at the Richard Durrant, concert guitarist website. This man has some guitars that don't even have a coat of varnish because of the subtle impact on the sound, and when he plays live and needs more volume, he carries a powered EON and an AKG 451. A bad engineer can make an excellent system sound awful, and a good engineer can make a poor one sound as good as it can!

[Doug Siddons]

And the drew guy who quoted my site, was slightly scary and shocked me. and as for me learning that in Btec, not an option as the school where I was taught is full of rubbish equipment.

 

 

I didn't have to google the company it was on Aidans profile. I'm not getting at Aidan here, but what exactly are we meant to expect when a prospective employee presents his Cv with a Btech in Tech Theatre and an A+ in sound and light? (Maybe this is best being split into next gen).

 

 

"Drew :unsure: "

[mervaka]

The good engineer learns what those limits are, uses the tools that are available to him or her and gets on with the job. Bitching about gear rarely does anyone any favours - but does create a somewhat negative impression of the person in the minds of others.

QFT