collism Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I did a little band show in a Fire Station canteen once - we were using haze and the alarm went off three times and was eventually silenced each time with no suggestion of evacuation or stopping the show or ceasing the use of haze :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 What I do at the moment is send off a email to estates a good week and a bit saying the days/ times I plan on covering them detectors (we have both the heat and smoke ones depending where you are). I then cover them in rubber gloves because the H&S fellow is not keen on the caps for some reason. We also have to have signs on all doors entering in to the "un detected" areas saying we are using fake smoke but if you believe there is a fire speak to x y z. The only down side is I / a tutor cannot leave the room unless we unglove. It is a pain but it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick S Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I believe that this is EXACTLY right! Point out to the jobsworths who know NOTHING about fire alarms systems and legal (or not) requiremets that by the time the detectors in the auditorium are triggered, the fire alarm will have been triggered manually, or people will already be dead. I don't entirely agree - something starts smoldering up in the fly grid, and the smoke detector may well be triggered before someone actually notices. Hmm... legalities. I doubt there is any legal requirement to have a fire alarm system fitted, at least not an automatic one. It is usually an insurance requirement, and therefore a local officialdome requirement. It's quite likely it IS a requirement in new builds - I'm just thinking of existing systems. I think that for all intents and purposes any public space - particularly schools - will require a fire alarm system, even existing builds. I don't know about the UK laws, but the USA, Canada, and Australia all require smoke detectors in public buildings. Regardless of whether it's a legal requirement not having one leaves the building owner wide open to all sorts of liability issues. I'd suspect that a school that simply had a manual push/break glass system with no smoke detectors or fire suppression systems would, should a fire happen and loss of life occur, be in a very difficult position should a civil action be brought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addoaddo Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Fire alarms are not required buy law. The law states that you must do a Fire Risk assesment, the results of the risk assesment are what will drive the need for a fire alarm system. Obviously not installing a system when you define a need for one would cause problems if there was an incedent. In this case the need for the fire alarm is only to notify people of a fire if the building is ocupied. At a sailing club I run we only opted for one heat detector in the whole building as the whole building is occurpeid and in the case of a fire break glasses are better. If a fire starts when the building is unocupied we have insurance. Although this is not a hall but similar principles apply. The fire alarm is firstly inform everyone in the building that there is a fire, it secondary function is to detect a fire in the case that the building is unocupied. I have always found that if a fire starts in a room with people they will always notice it before any smoke or heat detector As mentioned before insurance does often require one for cover. It generally comes down to having the correct procedures documents so Mr jobsworth can follow and all every else to get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caldair Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 The theatre I work in at the moment apparently circumvented the whole issue by finding a fluid that produced a haze slightly heavier than air, and placing the cracker above the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 The theatre I work in at the moment apparently circumvented the whole issue by finding a fluid that produced a haze slightly heavier than air, and placing the cracker above the stage. Linky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 And having a stage floor covered in a thin film of oil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Fire alarms are not required buy law. .......This may be true BUT if you have them installed, they must be properly maintained and used correctly. I for one wouldn't like to be asked the question "Why did you cover a working smoke detector with a rubber glove, rendering it useless for the purpose it was designed for?" in court following a serious incident! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Fire alarms are not required buy law. The law states that you must do a Fire Risk assesment, the results of the risk assesment are what will drive the need for a fire alarm system. <snip> I'm not so sure this is 100% true but wonder if anyone can give a definitive legal answer? In my experience there isn't a single national law covering this but the Fire Officer from the local brigade had the authority to specify what protection and alarm system he determined you should have--and his spec held the force of law. If you didn't install the detectors and alarm system he specified you couldn't get a permit to occupy/use the building. I should say that there was "wiggle room" to negotiate over certain provisions. For example, he allowed us to use heat sensors rather than smoke sensors in our studios since we thought we might be using smoke machines (and, also, our brand new studio lights smoked a bit when brand new, giving some false alarms). However, on other things he was rigid--for example, the alarm sounders had to be loud enough to literally drive people out when they went off. Anyway, my experience (admittedly now some years out of date since I've retired and am no longer involved in system design) was that the spec from the fire officer did carry the force of law. Was I being conned? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiLL Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 My theatre is in a school and has recently had all it's smoke/fire detectors isolated via a key switch in the control room, when this is turned, no smoke detectors AND a big red flashy beacon comes on over the control room door (in the back corridor) so that when I'm leaving for the night after a show I don't walk off without resetting the system, and instead go.. 'What's that flashing red light? Ah, forgot to reset the alarms' and go back in and do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_cooper Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 My theatre is in a school and has recently had all it's smoke/fire detectors isolated via a key switch Do you really mean all? Seems a bit of an overkill. We've (another school owned theatre) got a system that allows us, via mechanical timers, to defeat the auditorium smoke detectors, and delay audible outputs, also needing key switches. This allows me to tailor the response to the event. No fog/pyro/fire effects? No need to isolate detectors. School only event, such as a parents' meeting, without trained duty manager and staff? Don't delay audible outputs as there's nobody to manage the situation. Forget to turn either back on? Shouldn't be a problem as the timer will automatically (all be it backed up in daily checklists). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiLL Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 My theatre is in a school and has recently had all it's smoke/fire detectors isolated via a key switch Do you really mean all? Seems a bit of an overkill. We've (another school owned theatre) got a system that allows us, via mechanical timers, to defeat the auditorium smoke detectors, and delay audible outputs, also needing key switches. This allows me to tailor the response to the event. No fog/pyro/fire effects? No need to isolate detectors. School only event, such as a parents' meeting, without trained duty manager and staff? Don't delay audible outputs as there's nobody to manage the situation. Forget to turn either back on? Shouldn't be a problem as the timer will automatically (all be it backed up in daily checklists). Not the entire school, just the theatre's detectors, our venue has a habit of sucking haze and smoke into the backstage areas and setting off detectors in the rear corridors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caldair Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 (About cracker fluid that makes the haze sink slightly instead of going up into the detectors) And having a stage floor covered in a thin film of oil? No problem with that as far as I can tell. The haze hangs for ages - run the cracker before opening and perhaps a bit during the interval for a long show - so it's not like you use it as a smoky waterfall. Also, wash your floors now and then regardless of your haze fluid... :P No link, I'm afraid, I don't know what they use. A fluid dealer should be able to help you, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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