DMX for dummies

[johndenim]

Hi All.

I wonder if anyone could give me a few basics? (or point me to a post)

 

I am mainly into sound, but do have some basic lighting effects.

 

Abstract.

 

Clubshow controller.

Vrx8's.

Vr8's.

Twister 4's.

 

LED kit.

 

x2 MarveLED's.

x2 Chauvet vue 1.1

x1 kam quadflower.

 

I had read a small amount to get me set up with the Abstract kit, ie different addresses etc.

But would like to know more.

 

I would like to use my led kit with a controller so I have the option to turn on/off dedicated pairs, is this possible at all?

I mean linking up the different makes of effects?

 

Why can't my various makes of kit communicate with each other in stand alone mode?

 

Am I setting the addresses wrong on the dip switchs, or is it something else?

[Alexb_01]

I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for but a couple of basic overviews of how DMX works etc:

 

http://www.blue-room.org.uk/wiki/DMX

http://www.onstagelighting.co.uk/lighting-...ghting-systems/

[Blaize110]

As long as the different makes all use true DMX (unlike some Martin fixtures) you should be able to link all fixtures together. In slave and master, you usually just use overlapping addresses so that the master changing a channel value will affect all of the slaves. I have done this before but have got mixed results due to the fact that the controlling fixture may not use all the channels another fixture does so the slaves may have one aspect completely unused eg: red LED. You may also get mismatched channels that dont look nice together eg: Pan channel of master being the same as the gobo channel of a slave. This means the slave's gobo wheel will spin wildly while the master merely scans across the room.

 

Linking all units to a single controller seems the best option. It may take a bit of fiddling with individual channels to work out each fixture's channel spread but it should be possible to connect them all.

 

To control 2 fixtures together, just set the addresses (DIP switches) to the same. So that the units will both 'listen' to the data on the same channel range and therefore do exactly the same thing.

 

 

[EDIT]

Have looked at the controller (http://www.sabretechnology.co.uk/pdfs/clubshow.pdf). It should be able to control the rest of the fixtures in a similar way to the Abstracts. The abstracts seem to use DIP switches for 'zones' and 'head no. in zone'. Most DMX fixtures just use a simple binary system to select the first address for the fixture to 'listen' to. (http://www.sabretechnology.co.uk/calc.asp)

You may have to convert between what the controller calls Zone X, Head Y. And the real DMX address(es) it is sending data to in order to set the non-abstract fixtures to the correct addresses. The manual seems to give these addresses eg: Zone 1 Head 1 = 001, Zone 3 Head 4 = 045.

Another option may be to connect the controller to a computer, but I dont know if the doftware would use the Zone/Head system too or work in real addresses.

[/EDIT]

[Jivemaster]

Just note that a DMX luminaire without DMX does nothing, well it may sit there in its last controlled state or it may go off, or it may fail another way.

 

If you have the fittings on S2L then the do their thing. If you have them set to respond to DMX the YOU have to drive every step of their patterns, either programmed or realtime.

 

If you buy a manufacturer's controller then this may have some programmes built in and have some way for you to programme and manually drive the light show. However most manufacturer's system controllers will not also talk DMX sense to another brand of luminaire

[benweblight]

Don't forget some types of kit uses different DMX wiring so you may need some adapters. (i.e. some kit has data+ on pin 2 of the XLR and some has it wired the other way round), check the manuals for your lights.

[KevinE]

you should be able to link all fixtures together. In slave and master, you usually just use overlapping addresses so that the master changing a channel value will affect all of the slaves.

 

This is a little misleading, rarely indeed do dissimilar manufacturers' products work in master-slave mode. This is because different makes of fixture have no idea what you're going to connect them to and so wont have the relevant programming in there! All abstract fixtures for example wil follow a convention allowing them to understand each other, (they're designed that way), all NJD with other NJD etc etc...but not across makes. This is because these DJ products are designed to appeal to (and to be sold as packages to) DJs with no experience of DMX programming who have no desire to get involved and who simply want an easy, plug and play life. 'Proper' or 'grown-up' DMX isn't plug and play!!

 

John you need a generic lighting desk, ie one that bears no alliegance to any particular make of lighting. I would put the clubshow unit to one side, it's tailored for Abstract disco products. Luckily the fixtures you list are all capable of receiving DMX slaved off such a generic desk.

 

If you havent got them already, download the DMX tables for all your lights that you want to run together...dont guess what they are. Then consult the DMX guides on BR on how to address them properly to suit your chosen desk. How you write your programmes of course depends on what desk you choose.

[johndenim]

Thanks guys, I am still a bit confused by the jargon, but I shall certainly do some research.

 

Can anyone recommend a cheap desk?

Maybe just a sound to light controller?

I also have a DMX strobe which I have never used, (because I don't know how!) could this also be used?

Being the cheapo that I am, I do have one of these, would this do anything or is it too dedicated?

I will 'suck it and see' but atm the unit is buried under a pile of gear!

[Jivemaster]

Kit ONLY does master-slave if it specifically says so. even good M-S only works it's own make of kit.

[Ynot]

As long as the different makes all use true DMX.... <snip>

Hmmm...

Sorry, Blaize, but what the devil are you on about?

DMX is DMX - short & simple.

There may be (are) other control protocols, but DMX is an industry-wide standard. Full stop.

 

And I'm also not really sure what you're saying about overlapping DMX addresses, and linking different fixtures in master/slave orientation...

Talk about confusing!!

 

To John, I'd agree that you need to invest in a simple but capable generic DMX desk. Simple, as it doesn't need to handle huge numbers or complex cues, but capable in that it must be able to work on a fixture setup, NOT just sending simple DMX channels out to the fixtures.

 

I don't know any of the kit you list personally (and don't intend to dig too deep, tbh) but all of them should have a specified list of what DMX channel controls which - use that list to construct a fixture library in the desk you're going to use and you're half-way there. But to do that you do need to understand more detail of how DMX works - and for that you should read up on the basics - as suggested see the BR wiki.

 

As for sound to light - it MAY be that some or all of the fixtures have a S-L control channel - bit like most LED pars do. Which means a certain value on that channel will put the fixture into S-L mode and ignore some or all of the other control channels. To find out you'll need to read up on the kit.

 

And yes - you should be able to use the DMX strobe - again depending on what type and control channels, will determine whether you can just trigger it manually, or auto from a chase, or something more complex, like flash patterns and intensity... Again - RTFM.

[KevinE]

would this do anything or is it too dedicated?

 

No. It's exactly the DJ-orientated dedicated brand-specific unit (ie Acme) that you need to avoid, it will only work with certain Acme products (and their clones).

 

To suggest a suitable DMX desk, tell us what you want it to do..Im guessing you want to use it for 'Denim'. Then tell us your budget and we can go from there. With cheap desks, you tread the fine line between price and funcion, reliability and ease of use.

 

Maybe just a sound to light controller?

 

To get all your fixtures synchronised to sound to light together, you'll need a desk with a sound-to-light function, and it will still have to be 'told' what channels do what within each type of fixture so it knows what to alter on the beat. Simply relying on the internal sound to light of each unit (where provided) will give rather erratic results and not synchronised and hence not providing the professional look that they could be capable of. A suitable desk will have its own mic and will therefore change the colours and positions etc of your fixtures together on the beat.

[johndenim]

Thanks KevinE.

 

Well, before your reply I did try, but it was as you say.

The app is for the disco, my wifes voice is still dodgy so we have veered into that market recently.

We actually have two set ups, I go out on my own and so does my wife. (when required) I use the abstract fixtures as they are a bit heavy for my wife to lift and put on a t bar, hence the hum drum (but light) led fixtures.

I don't really have a budget as a rule, but it is something we need, random flashing led dots are OK for some, but I want them to be more controlled.

So channels refer to patterns, colours, rotation just like the abstract stuff?

When I get a generic desk, I can set each fixture to either do the same or operate independently?

I would like to have the option to switch off a pair and sometimes all, and just use the strobe, this will all be required to be programmed in?

Please excuse my newbie questions!

[paulears]

I think you've kind of confused what these master-slave things are for John.

 

If you buy two or more cheap clever lights, then if you link them up, the first unit will generate it's own programme - something that shows the features off a bit, and probably just repeats a long (or short) sequence of events. It bungs this out of the DMX out, and any other identical units will follow it. Some units automatically switch to this mode when DMX in vanishes. I've got a pile of mirror scans for waggly-waggly simple effects, and it's actually a pain when somebody unplugs something killing the DMX input to them, they suddenly go off on one! Nothing you can do from the ground apart from kill their power.

 

If you have different types of fixture, and a couple of each one like you seem to have, then each pair will be able to do their own thing - but you can't connect pair A to pair B, because the programme running on the first pair will almost certainly do very odd things (or nothing) on the others. A mirror left instruction might end up trying to change a gobo on the other.

 

People are suggesting that the only solution to get control over all of them is to get a controller that will be able to operate all of them. This pretty well means that a brand specific cheap controller won't be any good, because it's programming is dedicated to it's own products. In your case, if you wish to have control over them, and not just let them all do their own thing, all of the time - maybe one of the cheap software systems always being talked about on here would do what you want? You can build templates that allow it to properly access the features each of your lights has, and it means that stabbing a button marked RED - will make everything go red (assuming it can?)

 

DMX, as people are saying isn't remotely a big deal, but I used to bash my head up against a brick wall trying to explain DMX to students, and often had to come up with analogies that worked (but were often not quite right - but they worked) . Try this - DMX is like English. We all speak it, and it has a few weird dialects, but it works. In your case, brand X speaks Geordie. brand Y speaks Norfolk. If Norfolk talks to Norfolk or Geordie talks to Geordie, all is well, but neither make much sense of each other, but they are all speaking English. Using a proper controller is like speaking standard English to both - you use vocabulary they both understand, and communication happens.

[KevinE]

So channels refer to patterns, colours, rotation just like the abstract stuff?

 

yes!

 

When I get a generic desk, I can set each fixture to either do the same or operate independently?

 

Yes! The lights won't all be fixed into doing the same thing if you dont tell them to.

 

You can make them do the same, not automatically, but by virtue of programming. In DMX, all the connected lights will do exactly as they're told by the origin of the signal..ie the desk. The lights will effectively relinquish their own will and become subservient to the desk. So the desk is the master and all the fixtures are the slaves.

 

It's all in the programming which you will do in the comfort of your own home and save for instant recall 'on the night'.

 

If you want them all to do the same thing, you will make a programme for it.

 

If you want them do all do different things, then you'll have to write another programme to tell them all to do different things.

 

DMX desks (at a sub-pro level) dont know what the lights are they're connected to so you have to tell them everything about each light (its personality). In the BR, people talk about personality or fixture files...ready made bundles of info you can simply load into a pro desk, download from a website or recall from an extensive pre-loaded memory. Few, if any desks suitable for a disco budget will have the facility to accept pre-made personality files.

 

But I'm straying into extant BR pinned topics here and shan't expand further on these basic principles.

[Blaize110]

As long as the different makes all use true DMX.... <snip>

Hmmm... ™

Sorry, Blaize, but what the devil are you on about?

DMX is DMX - short & simple.

There may be (are) other control protocols, but DMX is an industry-wide standard. Full stop.

 

Sorry, rather confused things unnessecarily there. Was just making the point about the Martin protocol (RS485) in a badly worded way.

 

 

And I'm also not really sure what you're saying about overlapping DMX addresses, and linking different fixtures in master/slave orientation...

Talk about confusing!!

 

If one fixture is running as the master on channels 1-6, you can set other fixtues of any brand to channels 1-6. However the results are not always great and sometimes I have offset the second one so that the channels correspond better (at the loss of a channel if they both use 6). eg: M=1-6; S=2-7

Again, badly worded.

[matt-the-dj]

Hi All.

I wonder if anyone could give me a few basics? (or point me to a post)

 

I am mainly into sound, but do have some basic lighting effects.

 

Abstract.

 

Clubshow controller.

Vrx8's.

Vr8's.

Twister 4's.

 

LED kit.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USB2DMX-JMS-USB-Inte...%3A1%7C294%3A50

x2 MarveLED's.

x2 Chauvet vue 1.1

x1 kam quadflower.

 

I had read a small amount to get me set up with the Abstract kit, ie different addresses etc.

But would like to know more.

 

I would like to use my led kit with a controller so I have the option to turn on/off dedicated pairs, is this possible at all?

I mean linking up the different makes of effects?

 

Why can't my various makes of kit communicate with each other in stand alone mode?

 

Am I setting the addresses wrong on the dip switchs, or is it something else?

 

 

 

 

 

 

heres my 2p worth

what about a little usb dongle run by a laptop, its simple to use as it has a sound to light option and you can tell lights to overide and set patterns cues sequencies etc. link all the lights together ....job done

you can download programs like freestyler for free to act as your software. if you want to spend more money then you can buy better desks once you have learned the basics. I use freestyler with a little usb dongle from germany that I got of ebay. it didnt cost the earth (£50ish) and for my use its ideal. not sure but I think with abstract you may have to buy an inline polarity changer as they swop they data pins from most other brands.

heres what I use.....for the money its a good place to start.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USB2DMX-JMS-USB-Inte...%3A1%7C294%3A50