adam_cookson Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 ;) I have been watching Britains Got Talent in my breaks at the theatre this evening, and a few of us have been trying to work out how the Breakdancing delayed screens where done, if anyone can give any information on this I would be most greatful. Hope this is the right place that I have put this, we all think its a projection but there were no screens visible. CheersAdam Cookson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 It's an effect that has been used since Dr Who in black and white days. It's just video feedback against a projected image - screen. led doesn't really matter. You can do it yourself at home. Point the camera at you sitting in front of the tv, and it works. takes a bit of planning to get it looking just right, but it's just the visual version of audio feedback. The camera displays the picture, but then it sees it again, and again. The wierd trail effect comes from moving the camera, and the small delay is just the time it takes to process the signal and display it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 And it's all LED on the backdrop, so no projection. It's the equivalent of audio feedback, just that it works in this setting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam_cookson Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 It's an effect that has been used since Dr Who in black and white days. It's just video feedback against a projected image - screen. led doesn't really matter. You can do it yourself at home. Point the camera at you sitting in front of the tv, and it works. takes a bit of planning to get it looking just right, but it's just the visual version of audio feedback. The camera displays the picture, but then it sees it again, and again. The wierd trail effect comes from moving the camera, and the small delay is just the time it takes to process the signal and display it. Thanks for your quick reply! we was sat a while trying to work it out! ;) CheersAdam Cookson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 It's also one of the most effective uses of the effect I've seen in quite a while - suited the act really well, I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 It's the equivalent of audio feedback, just that it works in this setting! isn't it frustrating that video feedback is a really cool effect, yet audio feedback is a pain in the arse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 The thing that always makes me smile is that with audio feedback, we always have to control it by interfering with what comes out of the microphone, whereas videa feedback is so dependent (from an artistic point of view) on the delicate (or not) movement of the camera. I bet that we get this repeated at every show where cameras and screens are available - promoted as a new and cool effect. It does occur to me that audio feedback is always a difficult concept to get across to newcomers and students - seeing this happen visually might make a really good start to how feedback happens, and how small adjustments can have big reactions. As a basic concept, you could live with the obvious differences in why some things happen, but imagine a close up of just the face. Solid background. gradually zoom out to include the original image on the screen, and then hey presto, all hell breaks loose - a much better deminstration of the loop issue than turning the gain up on a mic, and then you could expand from there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benweblight Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Mind you...there are people that make 'experimental' music using audio feedback........ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum_Music So it has its uses I guess ;) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoLiEn Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I too was thinking about this, thankyou for the information. on a similar note, I also enjoyed George Sampsons performance with the three flown screens for another brick in the wall. lovely idea, brilliantly carried out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timperrett Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Within Catalyst (and probably most decent media servers) you can add a delay to that repeating image, and more interestingly, move it around on the projected/LED backdrop to get a more obvious effect which goes off to one side, or above etc which helps to create multiple effect from a single, locked off camera. This effect was used a fair amount by Sven Ortel and Finn Ross for Complicite's 'A Disappearing Number' to give an effect of infinity...a theme on which the production played upon. Not a 'new' idea, but one which can be manipulated and created more efficiently with the development of media server technology - but then isn't that true of most things a media server can do ;) . As with all visual effects, for it to work well, it has to come out of a need, out of the theme of a piece, it can't be a method - a toy - that is just 'slapped on' to make something look cool. If this is so, it is can be seen to be out of place or simply an effect. In the case of this topic specifically (let's not get too deep - it is Britain's Got Talent after-all!) I thought the effect was used to mask a pretty bare stage and a 'seen it before' performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamtastic3 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Oh yeah, video feedback is an awsome technique. It can be very simple to very complicated: Speaking of delayed projections and fractals, does this video by the Jackson 5 also use the same technique? I always thought it was done by the same process (delayed video feedback): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick S Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Speaking of delayed projections and fractals, does this video by the Jackson 5 also use the same technique? I always thought it was done by the same process (delayed video feedback): If we're talking in terms of audio equivalents, it's more audio delay than feedback (the principle is similar, but you want a highly controlled delay and decay - the video you link to is also delaying a modulated version of the live action). It's an effect that's much older than video feedback, as it's also achievable on film with an optical printer (by 'stepping and repeating' frames). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie80 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 video feedback also used in Queens Bohemian Rhapsody video... O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve h Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I may be well off the mark. But I was sitting at home wondering whether the delayed effect was only going out to audiences at home. The picture looked very crisp compared to some of the other things they had going. Also occasionaly when the camera was still on the presenters you could see where the 2 screens werent entirly aligned (we are talking by a few pixels!) But a very very clever effect and it was nice to see the choreography making the most of it, and vice versa im sure Steve (im now quite ashamed that ive admitted that I was at home watching it by choice, ah well...sometimes mind numbing tv is soothing on the brain) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazzAV Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Yeah funny, I was explaining it to my wife and telling here we spend half our time designing shows and lay-outs to ensure that it doesn't happen and is actually something we hate. It was good to see it used in this way although personally I found it a little distracting. The slight delay it had also added to the whole effect..great on britains got talent, not so good on the latest oil and gas conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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