Very Lights

[GlesniPJ]

I'm working on a small project, just putting together some design and possible implementation ideas based on the idea of touring a small scale production of R.C Sherriff's 'Journey's End'. At many points during the play Very lights are mentioned (the lights that where sent up over No Mans Land during the first world war so that enemies could be spotted repairing barbed wire or recovering wounded soldiers.) and I wanted to include possible solutions for creating these light effects on a cyclorama or back cloth of some kind. They have to appear to shoot up and then descend while dimming, a little like fire works but without the pretty sparks. Any practical solutions for this would be much appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

Glesni P-J

[Ynot]

I'd say this would be difficult to recreate accurately in a small venue, not least because these appear to be pyrotechnic flare effects, and any aerial effect in a small venue is going to be highly unpredictable.

 

However, do you really need the actual flare itself?

The effect on the ground of overhead flares can be recreated using simple lighting cues - these things were really only used as signal flares, not actually as a means of lighting the enemy, though I suspect they could have used a number of them to reasonable effect.

 

They were only short duration I believe - around 10 sec each - so maybe a fast to rise, slow to die concentrated pool of light on your cyc may suffice?

 

Or if you have a decent moving head available (doubt it's worth getting one in just for the job) you could maybe simulate the actual flare by programming a small off focus spot (irissed down) rising to the top of the cyc, then opening the iris to simulate the flare opening at it's peak (maybe also a colour change) and a slow drop to the ground again...

[adam2]

I feel that two different pieces of military technology are being confused here, and am uncertain as to which is required to be replicated.

 

Very lights are used for signalling, they are cartridges, somwhat similar in appearence to shotgun cartridges, they are fired from a special launcher which resembles a handgun, but with a wider barrel.

When fired into the air, an intense coloured light results, visable for many miles.

Different colours are available, for use to send simple messages (e.g. tanks advance on seeing the red very light, infantry to follow on seeing the green very light)

 

However the lights used to detect enemy action in trench warfare were much bigger, they are generaly called "illuminating shells" the types used in years gone by were fired from a field gun.

The modern types use an expenable cardboard launch tube.

The shell is fired over the battleground and bursts at high altitude, releasing an intense white flare that remains in the air for a minute or so, suspended from a small parachute.

 

It would not be easy to simulate either effect without pyro.

 

A crude simulatiom of a very light could perhaps be achieved by rapidly moving a small spot of intense coloured light (from a follow spot or moving light) upwards at an angle over the rear of the stage.

Another approach might be a suitable light source (coloured CFL?) moved upwards rapidly by an operator behind a gauze backcloth.

 

To simulate an illuminating shell, would require an intense open white/light blue light directed almost verticly downward onto the stage. Idealy the light source should move slightly so as to simulate the parachute flare drifting with wind. A slight flickering effect would help, since the real flares tend not to burn steadily. The light source should approximate to a point source, in order to cast sharp shadows.

[Ynot]

I think the question is whether the desired effect is to 'see' the actual flare/shell being fired or the effect of said shell/cartridge on the area affected...

[GlesniPJ]

Thanks for the answers. :(

I don’t actually want to use pyros just create the lighting effect that very lights would have on the surrounding area.

 

Cheers

[lite_lad]

could you not use a rear projection onto the cyc?

as projectors are easy to get hold of and you could probably make something which looked alright in just powerepoint if you are not very handy with proper video programs....

[tlc]

could you not use a rear projection onto the cyc?

as projectors are easy to get hold of and you could probably make something which looked alright in just powerepoint if you are not very handy with proper video programs....

 

 

The effect I think you need is one where there is a lengthening shadow as the flare loses altitude.

 

You need a moving light source to do this live.

(Note a moving "light source" not an intelligent light , though that would also work to some extent.)

 

Very hard to do this live but with projection you have a better chance.

 

My suggestion:-

 

In rehearsal you could use a bright source (parcan at a distance might do) on a moveable pole.

 

Film the stage set with this light moving from high to low will give you the right moving shadows , prfereably from a FOH position.

Only this moving light source should be on here , you will add other lighting later.

 

A projector will then give the shadow effect on the cyc/floor that you want

(without confusing your audience by a guy on a ladder in the middle of the seats holding a bright light :D )

 

It wont be accurate wrt the actors (shadows) of course but I think will still work well enough , especially if there are some tall elements to the stage set.

[the kid]

Perhaps a 100w lamp?

 

Have the whole scene very low level and use a 100w lamp with a cable that hangs from floor to top of the pros, attach this to a fly bar. Every time the effect is needed, it flies up and is lit up, and fades down as it decends.

 

The obvious issues are if you don't have flys, and keeping the lamp from smashing or being walked in to.

[Guest lightnix]

Thanks for the answers. :D

I don’t actually want to use pyros just create the lighting effect that very lights would have on the surrounding area.

 

Cheers

In which case you need to hang a naked, high intensity point source as high up as you can, without generating any unwelcome shadows. I'd suggest a 1-2k lamp, but not without some proper risk-assessing first - you'd need to contain it, in case it broke. You'd also need to "blue it up a bit", with some 1/8th CTB or something, to simulate the pure white light of a magnesium flare.

 

Perhaps you could track it across on a pulley a bit, to simulate it being carried by the wind. Also: I think they used to flicker before they went out

[confused]

I did this show a while ago, here what I did.

 

there were 2 basic elemetns to light, the set and actors and the backdrop (a cyc in pur case).

To light the set and actors, I used a number of steep angle back light PARs, mainly hitting their heads and shoulder, and the top of the set (the nadbags and barbed wire of the trench). Coloured with L201 it makes a nice strong white light.

To light the Cyc, I again used steep PARs to hit it with the same colour. Varying the intensity of the light across the bar can create a directional effect. I didnt use a lolads of back light so the contrast when the flare cue was used was quite obvious.

Also try using a very simple chase to make a "flickering" effect as the flare goes off and burns out. Personally I like the idea of using projection with this too.

 

hope this helps

[Guest lightnix]

...nadbags and barbed wire...

Not a happy combination, methinks :)

[Andrew C]

We've done this one twice, an I can't remember for sure how we did it. From memory, the set is INSIDE a dugout? If so. the effect of a flare overhead would be a bright splash of light through the entrance that would move across the floor as the flare drops. Just like the patch of sunlight in your living room that the cat follows.

 

Colour it up to suit.

[GlesniPJ]

Ok thanks guys for all the answers. I submitted the project about 2 weeks ago now though. :** laughs out loud **:

And just incase anyone is wondering, 'Verey lights' was the title of the post because that is how it is spelled in the skript.

 

Cheers again

[Simon Lyall]

Ok thanks guys for all the answers. I submitted the project about 2 weeks ago now though. :** laughs out loud **:

And just incase anyone is wondering, 'Verey lights' was the title of the post because that is how it is spelled in the skript.

 

Cheers again

So you posted this on the 12th, but submitted the project on the 10th?

 

Or you, posted this on the 12th and expected an answer that night?

 

 

Simon