which fx unit

[ian hatch]

Hi all

I'm after a new FX unit and got roughly £300ish to spend.

I was going to go for the TC M-ONE XL as this quite a common choise but a friend of mine suggested the Lexicon MX200 (£170) he said for a unit roughly half the price of the TC it was a better option to use in "live" gigs (not arena size) because sound wise no one would notice a difference.

If this Lexicon option is a runner would I be better of saving some money or buying 2 units?

If it's the TC would I have to buy the seperate Delay unit that they sell as it appears on loads of riders I have seen or would the M-ONE be OK on it's own.

Lastly, is there a better option to any of the above, IE: makes combinations etc.

 

Cheers

Ian

[Rob_Beech]

Hi Ian.

 

I like the M ONE XL for what it is. It's probably not the best unit out there but then again it's not the highest price.

I don't think I've knowingly used a MX200 so can't comment or compare the two.

 

As for whether you want the D TWO aswell. That all depends. It appears on lots of riders, so if you have alot of riders to fulfil then yes you'll need it. If not then the choice is yours. I use the D TWO as a delay unit. but I use the Yamaha range (900's and 990's) for the reverb side of things. I find more 900 / 990 requests than M ONE requests on riders.

[jonathanhill]

I bought an MX200 for a venue some time back. It was a good price and seemed like a fairly useable unit. However, it is not as programmable as an SPX900 though. I would buy one new, either the MX or the TC unit and scour an auction website for a second hand SPX. Picked one up a couple of years back for just over £100 (SPX900).

[ian hatch]

Hi Ian.

 

I like the M ONE XL for what it is. It's probably not the best unit out there but then again it's not the highest price.

I don't think I've knowingly used a MX200 so can't comment or compare the two.

 

As for whether you want the D TWO aswell. That all depends. It appears on lots of riders, so if you have alot of riders to fulfil then yes you'll need it. If not then the choice is yours. I use the D TWO as a delay unit. but I use the Yamaha range (900's and 990's) for the reverb side of things. I find more 900 / 990 requests than M ONE requests on riders.

Cheers Rob for the reply.

Trying to get hold of the yamahas at a decent price is like trying to win the lottery, hense why I opted for the TC.

If the M ONE has delays builtin why do you need a seperate unit IE the D TWO?

The riders I have seen are not for me just other peoples ones, so I don't need to worry about equipment requests from people.

The FX units would be used by myself to be used with a couple of bands I have helped out in the past, but who want me to work with more closely, hense the FX unit investment.

I gather most Lexicons are fairly good but £170 seems quite cheap or am I missing the whole FX point?

[Rob_Beech]

Flexibility is the key. Being able to adjust the amount of verb and delay from the desks aux sends, and doing this individually per channel. Rather than blending it on a custom effect on one processor.

 

You might want verb and delay on the lead vocal, and a bit less delay on the backing vocals, and the delay on the snare etc, all different blends between the 2. Not something you can do on 1 unit. Some of my racks have 3 units in them for More flexibility still. A 900 990 AND a DTWO. or a REV500 a M ONE and a D TWO in another etc.

 

Like I say, I can't comment on the lexicon ones. I've not used many to be fair, not through choice, I've never owned any but I haven't disliked what I've used. I do like the TC ones and the Yamaha stuff. The 990's can sometimes be picked up for £200 or a bit less if you keep looking. They don't come up often though as everyone wants to keep them.

 

Rob

[Shez]

You might want verb and delay on the lead vocal, and a bit less delay on the backing vocals, and the delay on the snare etc, all different blends between the 2. Not something you can do on 1 unit. S

 

I usually have my single Lexi set up to do that - L input is for verb, R for delay. They appear mixed at the output so the only potential disadvantage is that you can't adjust the two outputs independently (although the desk aux send masters let you achieve a similar effect). The routing is very flexible but it's not the easiest of units to program (MPX1).

[ian hatch]

You might want verb and delay on the lead vocal, and a bit less delay on the backing vocals, and the delay on the snare etc, all different blends between the 2. Not something you can do on 1 unit. S

 

I usually have my single Lexi set up to do that - L input is for verb, R for delay. They appear mixed at the output so the only potential disadvantage is that you can't adjust the two outputs independently (although the desk aux send masters let you achieve a similar effect). The routing is very flexible but it's not the easiest of units to program (MPX1).

Cheers for the reply.

I must admit I know very little about FX units and how they work, so please forgive me if this question has all the experienced sound guys rolling around with laughter.

On the fx units I've seen it gives presets IE: hall, room, large room etc, but how do you know which preset is going to suit the size of venue that you are in.

Does it work like, if you're in a large hall do you then set the fx to large hall on the preset.

Most of the gigs I'm going to be doing with the couples of bands that I mentioned on my original post will be pubs/clubs and small festivals mainly in marquees and outdoors, I know most of the festivals will have their own P.A. but I've been told it is always best to take a small rack with you so you can use your own FX's etc.

So my main point again is how do I approach the FX side of things for these different venues.

All help greatly received.

[david.elsbury]

Not at all

You simply set it to what sounds right.

For a vocal, you might want a "large hall" to simulate the effect of the vocalist in a big concert hall

Or for a snare, you might want a "small room" or a "drum plate" because you want a tighter sound

 

Different venues... I find it's more a case of how much "wet" effects I put back into the mix... again, all down to what it sounds like to you and how you like it. That's what soundchecks are for.

[ian hatch]

Not at all

You simply set it to what sounds right.

For a vocal, you might want a "large hall" to simulate the effect of the vocalist in a big concert hall

Or for a snare, you might want a "small room" or a "drum plate" because you want a tighter sound

 

Different venues... I find it's more a case of how much "wet" effects I put back into the mix... again, all down to what it sounds like to you and how you like it. That's what soundchecks are for.

Thanks for the reply.

Is it best to stick with presets like hall, room etc and go through them in soundcheck to see which sounds best, or as I've read before most engineers go down the dedicated Delay & Reverb route, if this is the better route where do you start IE: whwn to use reverb when to use delay and the sort of benchmark times etc.

Do you know of any books that might be useful for the kind of answers I'm looking for?

Cheers

Ian

[MarkPAman]

When I got my first digital effects unit (an SPX90), I sat down with a simple mixer, an SM58, put my headphones on, and spent an afternoon playing. Using my voice, or by thumping the table I was able to hear each sound dry, through the effects unit & mixed together. This helped me learn both how the unit worked & what each effect sounded like and what it might be useful to use it on.

 

I would suggest that this is a better method than reading even the best books (or internet forums ).

 

*That does not mean that reading is not a good thing to do as well*

[Bobbsy]

I'm afraid that I'm yet another person who can't compare the two effects units you mention but can again endorse the M-one XL. For the money...or even for somewhat more money...it's a sweet sounding, easy to use live, effects box.

 

The other thing I can endorse is Mark's suggestion to just sit down and play. Books might give some background information but the various parameters that can be adjusted are hard to describe in words. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that different types of effects unit often use different words to describe similar parameters.

 

The one refinement to Mark's method might be to record a short loop of your voice on something like Audacity or Audition and use that as your source rather than a live mic--basically the same as he was doing but I find it easier to listen and adjust when I'm not speaking.

 

In answer to a previous question, with almost any effects unit I tend to use the preset 'verbs just as starting points then adjust from there until I get the sound I want. Once I have that sound, I'll save and use THAT preset.

 

Bob

[ian_gibbs]

I've used Lexicon in the past but can't remember the exact models. For me I prefer the TC algorithms, to the extent that one of the few pieces of gear that I own is a M3000.

 

I use a M-one regulary in one of the venues I work in, and really like it.

 

On the delay side of things aquick question, do you need all of the functionality of the D-TWO for your gigs, or do you see those features being nessesary in the near future, of not then there are lots of units out there that will do the sort of delay that you need (ping-pong, tap etc) for a fraction of the price, for example I just picked up the Studio Spares catalouge that was sat next to me. The D-TWO is £295 +VAT where as an Alesis Midiverb 4(theres one in the same venue as the M-one used for delay) is £113.50 +VAT and (please excuse the presumption) that in the sort of venues that you're talking about you won't notice the difference. and you can buy a rack and all the cables with the change (and a few pints)

 

Ian

[mervaka]

When I got my first digital effects unit (an SPX90), I sat down with a simple mixer, an SM58, put my headphones on, and spent an afternoon playing. Using my voice, or by thumping the table I was able to hear each sound dry, through the effects unit & mixed together. This helped me learn both how the unit worked & what each effect sounded like and what it might be useful to use it on.

 

I would suggest that this is a better method than reading even the best books (or internet forums ;) ).

 

*That does not mean that reading is not a good thing to do as well*

 

I was borrowing an SPX90 off a friend for ages. it was a sad day when I had to give it back ;)

[Just Some Bloke]

Not at all ;)

You simply set it to what sounds right.

For a vocal, you might want a "large hall" to simulate the effect of the vocalist in a big concert hall

Or for a snare, you might want a "small room" or a "drum plate" because you want a tighter sound

Of course you may well find that different songs require different effects too. So a ballad would work with a longer reverb time whereas that would sound awful on an up tempo number as the reverb of one word would overlap the next word, meaning you couldn't understand it properly. Thus short, room type reverbs are better as the BPM goes up and longer hall-type reverbs are better as the BMP comes down.

 

But, I entirely agree with mark that the best thing to do is to play with the system on your own and see what every effect sounds like, making a mental (or written) note as to what effects would work best in each of the occasions you're likely to come across.

[ian hatch]

I've used Lexicon in the past but can't remember the exact models. For me I prefer the TC algorithms, to the extent that one of the few pieces of gear that I own is a M3000.

 

I use a M-one regulary in one of the venues I work in, and really like it.

 

On the delay side of things aquick question, do you need all of the functionality of the D-TWO for your gigs, or do you see those features being nessesary in the near future, of not then there are lots of units out there that will do the sort of delay that you need (ping-pong, tap etc) for a fraction of the price, for example I just picked up the Studio Spares catalouge that was sat next to me. The D-TWO is £295 +VAT where as an Alesis Midiverb 4(theres one in the same venue as the M-one used for delay) is £113.50 +VAT and (please excuse the presumption) that in the sort of venues that you're talking about you won't notice the difference. and you can buy a rack and all the cables with the change (and a few pints)

 

Ian

Cheers Ian for the reply.

I take your point about the sort of gigs that the bands are going to start out with, hopefully the venues will get bigger and better.

In your opinion would you just get the M ONE and use the delays from it on one channel and other effects IE: Reverb on the other channel and wait for the better gigs to come in?