Size of area needed for 300 seated people.

[Bryson]

Approximations aren't terribly useful at this small a scale: you are (literally) butting up against the walls so soon, there are too many variables to contend with. Much better to get a scale ruler, draw the room and then draw on the seats. Then you know for sure!

[Alex222]

Especially with Edinburgh being full of places transformed into fringe venues and the like.

 

Ye I know I was working there it’s amazing the amount of kit we managed to squeeze into the rooms.

 

Thanks for all the reply’s I have now managed to work out the space needed for my “friend” seems doing him a favour to do the tech side of this event was something to be avoided!!. ;)

[Paul TC]

Having said that I would advise your 'friend' that they should carefully check the capacity with the licencing authority as it's very unusual to have a standing capacity that is the same as the seated.

I would very definitely recommend the above. Your "friend" or someone is acting as the "responsible person" under Fire Safety legislation.

 

However some brief points re seating and gangways from published sources (NOT the YELLOW BOOK).

 

Premises should only be used for closely seated audiences IF YOUR RISK ASSESMENT shows it is safe to do so.

 

Where premises are licensed there may be additional conditions in the licence concerning how the seating may be set out. - Seating and gangways should be so arranged to allow free and ready access direct to the exits. - Audiences seated in rows will first have to make their way to the end of the row before being able to use the escape routes available.

 

With seating in rows with more than one escape route, total length of escape route 32 metres to final exit (to outside) for nomal fire risk.

 

In fixed seats there should be a clear space of at least 305mm between the back of one seat to the front of the seat behind it. (If the chairs are not fixed to the floor then even in locked together rows of seating, they WILL move, so allow some extra to this).

Gangways should be adequate for the number of seats served and at least 1050 mm wide. There should be NO projections that reduce this width. ( Remember a final exit door of 1050 mm width can cope with 80 persons per minute and you need to pass all people on that route from their seats to a place of safety in 2.5 mins for a normal risk escape time ).

 

Generally no seat should be no more than seven seats from a gangway, Standing and sitting in gangways or in front of any exit should not be permitted.

 

This information is taken from some general guidelines and may not exactly be applicable to your situation, (AND AS WITH ALL ADVICE OBTAINNED FROM AN INTERNET FORUM CANNOT BE CONSIDERED CORRECT), but is presented to show it is not just a case of "how many chairs can I put in ?".

 

Edited to add travel distance

[Don Allen]

In Perth, Western Australia we have an on line document provided by the Health Department Public Buildings Guidelines that has all the details to calculate capacity. While this is not your legal document, it may help work out how many can fit, then you can get it confirmed with your local authorities. If your local authorities do not have such a document, this would make a good template. It is derived from Health (Public Buildings ) Regulations 1992

 

Regulation 12 – Aisles (page 31 of pdf)

Both the BCA and regulations specify requirements for seating rows and aisles. The following

notes provide a comprehensive guide to the requirements.

1. Aisles are required on both sides of every row of seats that is between 10 and 42 seats

in length.

2. Dead end aisles can be no more than 10 seats in length.

3. The maximum distance between aisles is 42 seats.

4. The minimum width of an aisle is 1 metre and is determined by the BCA.

5. Steps within aisles must:

● Be the full width of the aisle.

● Be uniform in size (both the riser and going).

● Going shall be between 280mm and 355mm.

● Risers shall be between 115mm and 180mm.

Clearance between rows

The clearance between rows of seats is a BCA requirement and must be:

300mm if the distance to an aisle is less than 3.5 metres.

500mm if the distance to an aisle is more than 3.5 metres.

BCA does not provide a pro rata distance. It should be either one or the other unless a

performance-based option is utilised.

Calculating seating distances

Traditionally when calculating distances to aisles the seat that a person seeking egress

from is not included in the count.

For example – to calculate the maximum number of seats that could be used with the

350 mm spacing.

● The Table at Regulation 7 prescribes that the minimum width for a seat is 450 mm.

● Calculate the number of 450 mm spaces and round to the nearest whole number =

8.

● The maximum number of seats in a dead end row would be 9.NOTE: The above calculation is based upon the minimum width and would be varied if

wider seats are used.

● The maximum number of seats would be 17 between aisles.

 

So if you know the size of the chair being used, you can calculate how many you can fit in the room after allowing for aisles etc.

[sleah]

Just to add to this, as it's a school we're talking about.

 

There are actually two capacities in terms of seating - bizzare as it may sound!

 

In our largest hall we can seat around 450~500 for school events, i.e. events which ONLY involve staff and students.

HOWEVER if the public are involved (this includes parents) then the capacity is reduced to about 300.

IIRC you have to have a 4 foot asiles. In our case up each side and up the middle, which is approx. 3 'normal' school plastic chairs wide.

[Rob_Beech]

I've often wondered about this sort of thing. It worries me that sometimes you see a school hall crammed up a few times each year with every student and every teacher in there. When I were a lad......... we'd have a year group assembly once a week (5 years 5 days) and then every now and again we'd cram the entire school into the sports hall. Including staff this was about 1400 people. Now it wasn't a small sports hall, but it was a massive squeeze. I guess I didn't pay AS much attention to it at the time, but looking back, if that was meeting the necessary requirements then there's something a miss somewhere.

 

I find it difficult to understand why there would be a different capacity for different people. Particularly a higher capacity for school children. I'd say that there is a chance in the event of a fire you may find less control amongst the younger students, and as there is 66% more of them than there would be adults and only say 15 adults, you may find it an interesting one to deal with should the worst ever happen.

[paulears]

Are we talking about a school? If so, licensing is always a fudge. I'm not sure if it's different in Scotland, but in England, very few schools even have a license! Some do it properly, but most schools work on the assumption that they are a private not public place, so never had the old 'Licensed for music, dancing, singing and the like..." license. The Authority that would prosecute them also funded them making this kind of thing a bit pointless.

 

I used to give this problem (the one the OP asked) to my students as work to be done. The crafty ones simply took the stackable chairs we used, set them out next to each other, added a row in front with sufficient gap and then measured the space, then multiplied it up to get the capacity for the room. Then drew it on graph paper, and tried removing aisle and rows for access/exit. If a bunch of average college kids can do this - why are we turning it into something complex.

 

I have no idea if Alex works in a school, or is a student - but it makes no difference really. In an education environment they have people in post to look after safety - kids do daft things all the time, so safety in practical terms (rarely legal) is pretty important. If this person looks at the plan and says fine - then references to the yellow book and similar have no function. Schools and colleges have never even heard of these things!

 

If people fit in the space, all is well. External inspection rarely ever happens because they aren't quite sure how the rules apply either. I got the Fire Officer in once to advise me on something and it was his first visit ever! He never came back again.

 

 

Do the maths and leave the rest to the people who's job it really is.

[Simon Lewis]

I find it difficult to understand why there would be a different capacity for different people.

 

the logic (as mentioned in the government booklet referred to elsewhere) is that the capacity can be higher for simple buildings (with easy layouts, short exit routes etc.) and for people who know the building well, and are therefore familiar with where all the exits are. Conversely, where there are dependent people (very young or infirm, or with disabilities) or people who are not familiar with the layout (visitors, parents etc.) or the layout is far more complex (e.g. a multifloor, multiblock University campus) then capacity may be lower.

 

Naturally, all of these considerations are suspended if the headteacher has to give the whole school the "naughty pupil" talk ;-)

 

Simon

[Andrew C]

We too have a dual occupancy level for a couple of rooms. The fully seated theatre and hall are licensed normally, but the old School building, and the large dining room are something like 150 for outside audiences, and 300 internal. If it is mixed then providing the majority are internal then we can go to the higher capacity.

 

This has been cleared specifically with the local authority.

[Sound In Gloucestershire]

at risk of speculating

 

is the higher limit because the pupils will have done fire drills in these premises and will be very familiar with the layout and exits?

[Andrew C]

is the higher limit because the pupils will have done fire drills in these premises and will be very familiar with the layout and exits?

Yep. They know the way out, and will (basically) do as they are told.

[PDD]

There are actually two capacities in terms of seating - bizzare as it may sound! // In our largest hall we can seat around 450~500 for school events, i.e. events which ONLY involve staff and students. HOWEVER if the public are involved (this includes parents) then the capacity is reduced to about 300.

My work place (a school) is equally scary in that our licensable capacity is only 160, which we use for all "public" events (including parents as public, because they are not as familiar with the building), but the "internal" capacity - with no raked seating (i.e. flat floor with nasty plastic chairs, all joined together correctly and sufficient aisles) - is a scary 550, although that does include over 100 on a balcony which we otherwise don't use as the sightlines are rubbish. As Andrew C says for his venue, this has been agreed by the local authority and fire officer. We also do an annual "full assembly" fire drill, and actually did it under the required time, so I don't really have any valid arguments to change the status quo, which is what always prevails in a school!!

 

is the higher limit because the pupils will have done fire drills in these premises and will be very familiar with the layout and exits?

Absolutely.

[Rob_Beech]

I see this point. However, When I was at school, we never did this. We'd have a fire drill not long after the start of the school year, mainly for newcomers to the school. Never whilst I was there did we have a fire drill in an assembly, let alone one where ALL the school was there in the room.

 

The problem is the difference between a fire alarm going off, and the room catching fire.

 

If the fire alarm goes off but there is no evidence of fire, people are relaxed and think it's either a fire drill, a false alarm, or at worst, a fire somewhere else in the building that is not affecting them directly. So they exit the building as per instructions and assemble safely.

 

Things are of course very difference if there's a bang, crackle and the stage set bursts into flames, people want to be out of there as quickly as possible, and any organisation or sense of order is out of the window, along with some of the people.

[ojc123]

If this helps (adding all the H&S cavaets) our 15m x 15m hall will comfortably hold 300 people in bog standard school chairs. 350 is possible without breaking any rules. We could squeeze 400 in if we didn't care.

 

The maximum we are allowed on paper is 400 (so I'm told) including people on stage.

[Alex222]

If this helps (adding all the H&S cavaets) our 15m x 15m hall will comfortably hold 300 people in bog standard school chairs. 350 is possible without breaking any rules. We could squeeze 400 in if we didn't care.

 

Hi, thanks we got a H&S inspector in the other day to check out our plans we have had the "OK" can easily have the 300 people and 250 are seated normaly and then the other 50 are arround tables. The fact that we have double fire doors and no carpet and things in the venue help ;)