adamcoppard Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 Also, what's the total power intake you have availble for use by lighting? Total power intake is something that I can't tell anyone at the minute. I've spoken to the caretaker who told me to come back when we can find a ladder tall enough, though, for some rough idea, we have about 4 32A and around 16 13A sockets for the whole hall. The hall is on a completely seperate power ring from the rest of the school, so if we trip anything, only the hall is effected. Whilst I'm on the discussion of the hall, and smoke / haze, I can get away with most smoke as the hall has no smoke detectors etc. :D Anything else on power will have to wait till after the holidays I'm afraid, when I can schedule a meeting to get some ladders and diagrams to take a look. As for the second op, that's always been another idea, and it may well end up like that. However, finding someone capable to actually run it could prove a problem, and would end up with me pre-programming both in any event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_the_LD Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Why would it involve you doing both if you got in someone else? I'm sure there's someone who would be willing to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamcoppard Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 On a strech, I could get a second operator for the evenings, but, as I said, I would prefer, and the end result would probably be better if all that was needed for the second op was a Next and Previous UDK on the boards. A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. And, whilst I'm on the subject of LED Par's and Scrollers in this thread, one quick question about LED Par's:Looking in a hire catolouge, it looked like they took a 3 pin (XLR) cable in and out. Our dimmers use 5 pin, and how could I go from a desk with one output (I'm sure that desks I'm looking into hiring have more than one, but this is a hypothetical question). Can I get a cable to go from 3 pin to 5 pin and vice-versa? Also, could I cable them up in a fashion similar to: Cable from desk to dimmers.Dimmer 1 output to Dimmer 2 input. Dimmer 2 output to first LED Par, output to input (and daisy chain the whole line) and terminate at the end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GridGirl Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 And, whilst I'm on the subject of LED Par's and Scrollers in this thread, one quick question about LED Par's:Looking in a hire catolouge, it looked like they took a 3 pin (XLR) cable in and out. Our dimmers use 5 pin, and how could I go from a desk with one output (I'm sure that desks I'm looking into hiring have more than one, but this is a hypothetical question). Can I get a cable to go from 3 pin to 5 pin and vice-versa? Also, could I cable them up in a fashion similar to: Cable from desk to dimmers.Dimmer 1 output to Dimmer 2 input. Dimmer 2 output to first LED Par, output to input (and daisy chain the whole line) and terminate at the end? You can get 3-5 converters going both ways, most hire companies carry them as standard! You can daisy-chain the gear with a limit of 32 devices (including the desk) but if you get scrollers, then you run them off a PSU - 6-8 scrollers off 1 PSU so that's only one device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 On a strech, I could get a second operator for the evenings, but, as I said, I would prefer, and the end result would probably be better if all that was needed for the second op was a Next and Previous UDK on the boards.Adam, sorry, but this isn't really the best approach.Either of these jobs is a pretty daunting one for a student, especially when you do seem to be installing much of it from scratch. You may feel that you have the capacity to do both, but why? Surely it would be best to have two people (or even departments...) doing each job well, rather than stressing about it all and doing neither to your best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Seconded on the fact you probably want two of you to operate, and if it were me, I'd be looking at two for each department for the build/rig. That way to have some one to stand on stage and shout down a mic channel while the other EQ's and the same for the focus. It will take the pressure of, and is how it works in the real world. For example I'm running AV for a carol service tomorrow in The Centaur. I'll be lead Video, with then a team of two others to help. We usually build the load in, build and ready for doors in under 3 hours. For this show we're giving the usual 7am in for a 6:30pm show.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamcoppard Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 We've been in this position a couple of times before. In the last two years we've had only one or two doing the complete rig and tear down, with two ops. Last year, the experience sound op left, leaving me. Now, whilst this isn't really a problem (and I don't mind doing both, it's just going to be difficult balancing), we do have crew that we use for EQ / focus. This is because, due to the nature of the week, Sports Day is cunningly planned to coinicde with the weekend before the performancs, so that myself and manitanance have a day with nobody around to bring everything in. Then, when the students get back, the members of the stage managment are shown how to a) use the mic's, b) how to put them on, and then help us EQ, along with focusing.I do agree, that two ops would be better than just one, and is also better in a failure position (like we had last year). So, I shall probably be seeing who wants to provide the second spot early in the new year, and see how much they know. You never know, we may outsource, as a few companys won't dry hire, so a solution to the problem may have already been found! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Langfeld Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 You never know, we may outsource, as a few companys won't dry hire, so a solution to the problem may have already been found! And for two weeks (assuming 10 shows) that will add somewhere in the region of £1000 to your bill. Get a student. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_the_LD Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 Also, what's the total power intake you have availble for use by lighting? Total power intake is something that I can't tell anyone at the minute. I've spoken to the caretaker who told me to come back when we can find a ladder tall enough, though, for some rough idea, we have about 4 32A and around 16 13A sockets for the whole hall. The hall is on a completely seperate power ring from the rest of the school, so if we trip anything, only the hall is effected. I may have mis-understood this and I don't mean to sound patronising, but you do know that just adding up all the sockets in your hall won't give you the total power you have available to you? We have 36 sockets in out ceiling, all 13A, but that doesn't mean I have 468A available to me! In fact I only have 63A. Also, it's where you plug the dimmers in that matters. I asume you will plug them somewhere in the hall, but if you plug them in a room next door which is on a different main then you are not going to be dripping the hall out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamcoppard Posted December 21, 2008 Author Share Posted December 21, 2008 Also, what's the total power intake you have availble for use by lighting? Total power intake is something that I can't tell anyone at the minute. I've spoken to the caretaker who told me to come back when we can find a ladder tall enough, though, for some rough idea, we have about 4 32A and around 16 13A sockets for the whole hall. The hall is on a completely seperate power ring from the rest of the school, so if we trip anything, only the hall is effected. I may have mis-understood this and I don't mean to sound patronising, but you do know that just adding up all the sockets in your hall won't give you the total power you have available to you? We have 36 sockets in out ceiling, all 13A, but that doesn't mean I have 468A available to me! In fact I only have 63A. Also, it's where you plug the dimmers in that matters. I asume you will plug them somewhere in the hall, but if you plug them in a room next door which is on a different main then you are not going to be dripping the hall out! No, I do understand that this isn't the total power in the hall, and I was just trying to give a rough estimation of what's in there for use. I can't tell you exact figures until later in the new year when I've had a chance to go in an find out exactly how everything is in there A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. You never know, we may outsource, as a few companys won't dry hire, so a solution to the problem may have already been found! And for two weeks (assuming 10 shows) that will add somewhere in the region of £1000 to your bill. Get a student. Students are an option. I was just saying how a few companies do not allow the dry hire.Also, the two week hire is for four shows, now before everyone jumps up and down saying I don't need that long I'll try an explain a few things. First of all the two week hire is a rough length I'm using for estimates. For example, last year we did a one and a half week hire Tuesday-Tuesday-Friday. Also, the reason needed for the length of this hire is other school events it coincides with, tech run throughs, tearing down and the get in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 No, it's perfectly normal to hire stuff for longer than the shows, sometimes a fair bit longer. It's nolt ideal as it costs you money, but any reasonable hire company will do you a deal on a week and a half I'm sure. As for not doing dry hire, the last company I had to get in to do a last minute job didn't do dry hire, so they had to bring an engineer with them, cost the client more but they were desperate, the reasons they didn't do dry hire is because the system needed gaffa tape to hold it together and had no specific cabling, wasn't flightcased (even the amps etc). I'm sure that's not the case here though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnomatron Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Tell the hire companies that you're only doing 4 show days - some will be understanding, and only charge you show days, or at any rate not for the full period of the hire. You might be able to use those mackie speakers and save a wee bit of money, even if you supplement them with extra ones. Have you looked at running wired mics to your narrators? It's probably asking for trouble but it might be possible, if you can find a neat and well protected cable run. As for the second op - even if you do have to preprogram all the lights, it should be reasonably easy to teach a student to use the lighting desk and run cues, and from an educational perspective it's surely a vaulable experience. I'd take a hard look at the LED pars, it's expensive to get decent ones and the cheap ones will probably be overpowered by the rest of your lights. Depending how many colour states you need you'll probably get further with more generics and some gel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamcoppard Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Just got some nice quotes in.Probably going to get speakers + amp + lighting rig + power distro etc. from one company, and get the LS9-16 and Comms from the only company I can find around that has one!1Thanks for all your help. And, whoever said it comes out at around £1,300 was pretty close to the mark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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