Lighting Control for a small rental Company

[Keeper of the Keys]

Hi all,

Recently I was hired by a small sound/light/projection company in Jerusalem to take charge of the lighting department.

So far all the employees of the company are sound people so though they have some nice (second hand) lighting equipment it has been neglected and not really used in the best or durable ways, my task is to turn that around (I also know sound but I love doing lighting).

 

At the moment the company basically have lots of pars and other 'simple' light, several city colors and a few scans as far as lights are concerned.

 

To control everything the company has 2 Botex controllers (the same models just one 12/24 and one 24/48) and one old (ancient) Griven controller is what they say they always used to control the 'smart' lights (and some old liteputter for the really small stuff).

 

Generally the equipment goes out with the companies personnel to events ranging from weddings to live concerts.

 

I would very much like to get a new control with which we could grow more and which I actually can use in an effective way so I have been looking around for a while now.

To me one of the important things is that whatever control we go for is truly stable which as far as I am concerned rules out all windows ce/embedded/xp/whatever based desks.

Some of the desks I have been looking at are the smaller MA's (the Grand is way out of our league), Compulite Dlite (or maybe the smallest Vector), Zero88 Frog 2 and some of the other ones suggested in similar topics here.

 

For me it seems to be between MA and Zero88 (I know some people are cringing now for mentioning them in one sentence), but it seems to me that the Frog 2 offers more or less the same features that an MA Ultralight offers at less than half the price, so I don't know how I could possibly justify the even higher cost to my boss (on the other hand going for MA would help me personally as if I learn to work with it really well I would apparently be the 3rd person in this country who knows to handle it properly).

 

Any thoughts suggestions? In older topics people seemed to be enthousiastic about the Frog 2 is that still the case?

 

Thanks,

Eli

[peter]

Hi Eli

 

I'll let others pass comment on the desk (I'm somewhat biased), but if you'd like a demo of a Frog 2, please feel free to drop me an email (peter.kirkup@cooperindustries.com). We've worked hard over the last 5 years to ensure that the Frog 2 meets users expectations, and I'd be happy to show you it first hand.

 

Regards

 

 

 

Peter

[Tomo]

The key question is what you want to do with them.

 

Different consoles have different strengths, and do things in different ways.

 

Also, there's no reason to rule out any console based on the underlying OS. For a start, WinXP Embedded is not Windows XP - anything the manufacturer doesn't want in the image isn't there.

 

All that said, to be honest, how often does your rig exceed the limits of combining one Botex with the Griven?

If it's rare-to-never, then something more the size of a SmartFade ML sounds closer - 48 dimmers plus 24 movers.

 

When you're doing the rare gig that needs more capability, you can always sub-hire in a suitable console - which may not always be the same one.

[revbobuk]

Hi Eli

 

I'll let others pass comment on the desk (I'm somewhat biased), but if you'd like a demo of a Frog 2, please feel free to drop me an email (peter.kirkup@cooperindustries.com). We've worked hard over the last 5 years to ensure that the Frog 2 meets users expectations, and I'd be happy to show you it first hand.

 

Regards

 

 

 

Peter

 

Wow! All the way from South Wales to Jerusalem! Now that's what I call customer service.

[Keeper of the Keys]

So at the moment our rig as far as simple light does not exceed what we have (we have 36 dimming channels on dimmers that have a DMX interface), as far as the Griven is concerned I am less sure I have not been able to test it yet, one immediate lack though is that neither the Botex nor the Griven have DMX In so they can't work together on one universe/cable, doubling needed infrastructure.

 

I am hoping to get my boss to do some serious investing in the lighting department and I feel that getting a desk that does 'just' 48 channels it would limit us in the future, I am also debating maybe doing the investment myself to increase my value as a freelancer.

 

My background in computers makes me extremely untrusting of Microsoft OSses and running them in 'system crytical' applications, I know it is done often and we often see the rewards in the form of things like a BSOD at the 2008 olympics, Times Square etc.

Even manufacturers modified images can be very unstable see Hog III or your avarage windows smart phone that crashes ten times as often as symbian/linux based...

However if a desk has a reputation of being rock solid even with windows on it I don't want totally rule it out.

[Tomo]

Even manufacturers modified images can be very unstable see Hog III

The Hog III was actually running on Linux when it got its poor reputation...

I gather it's been sorted out by now, although I've not seen a Hog III system recently.

[dmoffat]

And in terms of avolites desk, their bigger Diamond 4 desks run on XP embedded, I believe, and I have never heard of one crashing.

 

once again, it does very much depend on what you are doing with the desk, if it was a disco type event, which it sounds like to me, I would consider a Pearl Tiger. A bit more money, but much better desk for the job in my eyes. With the facility for more movers and more generics than you currently have.

[smalljoshua]

How about a Chamsys MagicQ desk?

 

Chamsys website

 

Josh

[Andrey]

Eli, I think it could be better for you to look into Compulite systems, located next door to you in Hod Hasharon. DLite console will be fine for your needs.

[agermich]

Eli, I think it could be better for you to look into Compulite systems,

 

I've used the compulite vector blue a couple of times and found that while it is a nice board to use, it is rather unstable. I don't know what experiences others have had with them and it is entirely possible that some of the problems that I experienced were due to the board I used being one of the first off the line (some of the internal hardware in it varies from the current production models).

 

Mike

[lx999]

Really, where've you been hiding : )

I had to stop a certain hot-tempered LD from hurling his D4 off the balcony at the Grosvenor House after it blue screened one time too many. He sold it and bought a Vista (don't say anything).

 

They're ever so much better now, like so many companies the real product development happens when the gear is out in the world.

 

And in terms of avolites desk, their bigger Diamond 4 desks run on XP embedded, I believe, and I have never heard of one crashing.

 

once again, it does very much depend on what you are doing with the desk, if it was a disco type event, which it sounds like to me, I would consider a Pearl Tiger. A bit more money, but much better desk for the job in my eyes. With the facility for more movers and more generics than you currently have.

[indyld]

For me it seems to be between MA and Zero88 (I know some people are cringing now for mentioning them in one sentence), but it seems to me that the Frog 2 offers more or less the same features that an MA Ultralight offers at less than half the price, so I don't know how I could possibly justify the even higher cost to my boss

 

 

Just to put your mind at rest - the MA (even the Ultra - I prefer the Light but they are not cheap) cannot be compared to the Frog II , as the difference in price indicates (Yes, I have used them both. Yes, on gigs blah blah...). That doesn't mean that you wouldn't be better off buying the cheaper desk, they are just not comparable. We're not talking about the number of playbacks, memories, faders etc. that might be listed. You pay the extra money and you get an MA - simple as that.

 

Plenty of decent desks have been mentioned already, it's really a question of what's best for your situation and that part's not so easy for the rest of us.

[Keeper of the Keys]

I stand corrected as far as the Hog III is concerned it runs linux (and assumingly ran), the rest of that series runs XP(e) though...

[offtopic]

How do rental companies prevent renters from infecting their (XP(e)) desks with all kinds of virusses when they plug in their infected USB keys?

[/offtopic]

Compulite Dlite does seem to have the best chance, because they have the Israeli market and most others suggested products are hard to find here (no importers etc. and an importer in Jordan doesn't really help for Israel), but I do want to look at the other options, I also have to go by prices as listed outside of Israel as all companies that sell/import here don't list prices on their websites which makes the research even harder.

 

The Vector range is supposedly dual boot XP and vxWorks but according to a local tech I spoke to even the Orange (the smallest model in that series) is very expensive.

[Andrey]

Plenty of decent desks have been mentioned already, it's really a question of what's best for your situation and that part's not so easy for the rest of us.

That’s right. There are some questions we can discuss: technical characteristics, reliability, price, service & support. But some aspects are individual. For example, style of working with console. Each manufacturer has its own philosophy of developing software, panel layout with its highs and lows. And if something is good for one person at the same time can be impossible for another and vice versa. You can have familiarized yourself with suggested solutions by downloading of PC versions from the web.

 

Next aspects you need to take into account as well.

 

First of all. You need to think about reservation the desk performances considering of possible increasing your lighting rig in nearest future. Second thing – who will work with your desk? Only you or may be other LD your sets leaseholder. In last case you need think twice before make a decision about the consoles brand. Every LDs has its own preferences. Only questions….

[Tomo]

The ETC options (assuming larger than SmartFade ML) would be either the Congo Jr or the Ion.

 

I'm not sure which would suit better though - Congo Jr is more of a 'live event/busking/quick-turnaround theatre' console, while Ion is more of a 'structured theatre' console.

 

As with any console purchase, you are well advised to check your local dealers and get demos of the possible consoles.

Lighting consoles are more or less a personal choice - you're the one using it, so it's important that you like it!