Free Lancer Insurance?

[tolley1466]

Where is the best place to go to get public liability for a free lancer?

Thanks.

[dunk_1984]

People who don't check should note the OP is under 18.

 

OP this has been discussed many a time, try the search function.

[Seano]

Lancer insurance? For free? You'll be lucky.

 

Two main options for most thing entertainment industry related: Torribles in Bristol, Arthur Doodson in Manchester.

 

But if you're under 18 you're almost certainly going to have to wait a while.

[gareth]

What the others said, I'm afraid, Ryan.

 

It's good that you're looking to get yourself properly insured - but until you're 18 I don't think you'll be able to find an insurance company who'll touch you.

 

When the time comes, you could also think about joining BECTU (the entertainment industry trade union) - they offer a public liability insurance policy to freelance members (proper ones, not just ones who are 'weekend warriors' with a job in Tesco or wherever during the week) at a small extra cost. It's underwritten by AON and gives you, I think, £3m of cover. It's what I used to use when I was freelancing.

[dunk_1984]

When the time comes, you could also think about joining BECTU (the entertainment industry trade union) - they offer a public liability insurance policy to freelance members (proper ones, not just ones who are 'weekend warriors' with a job in Tesco or wherever during the week) at a small extra cost. It's underwritten by AON and gives you, I think, £3m of cover. It's what I used to use when I was freelancing.

 

This is what I have, I don't believe there is an extra cost any more. (Freelance membership starts at £120 a year)

 

However the PLI has been increased to £5m now.

[Modge]

It's free for the first year, then you pay after that (£110 a year I believe).

 

Still on the plus side under 18 and with no PLI the no win no fee ambulance chasers will probably leave you alone: you don't have the cash to pay their fee if they win! (The second line based on opinion, the first line based on being a BECTU member myself)

[alex_kyuss]

Hi all I've just renewed my membership and it cost me £135 + £23 for the insurance, I don't no about the under 18 thing but give them a ring?

[JDP]

With all due respect, if you are born in 1992, your aged 16.

 

The likely hood of anyone employing you to do as you say 'Free Lancer' work is slim. You have little experience, and the thought of a 16 year old claiming to be freelance and possibly turning up to a job as a lampie, rigger, desk OP, LD etc is actually VERY scary.

 

Also, I would be interested to know how much tax you will be paying on this 'Free Lance' work? To be freelance, you will need to be registered as self employed, or a limited company. You will need a Unique Tax ID or Ltd Company Reg No - NO (responsible) company would employ you on a freelance basis without asking to see this information, as a sign of being self employed....

 

Its good that you want to do this, but theres no way you can be seen as freelance in any company's eyes unless you have certain documents obtained by HMRC as proof of self employment.... IF you do tell them you are self employed, then this could scupper you for your 'day tasks' such as school/college etc - which I am assuming you will be doing as a full time activity, and taking the 'freelance' work on the side?

[paulears]

JDP's made an interesting comment about your status - if you are self-employed in the eyes of HMRC, and they do accept under 18s as being in business, then you'd almost certainly lose your local authority funding for post 16 study, and be treated like a 'mature learner' when they might, or might not fund you. So college and uni could becvome VERY expensive. Once you've become a sole trader, and they want your accounts for tax and NI class 2 and 4 purposes, you'd find it hard to also claim full time education status - one or t'other, I'd guess.

P

[J Pearce]

Being self employed does not affect the university loan, they don't asses your own income, only your guardians'. But it could well affect FE fees.

[tolley1466]

okay, okay I'm really looking for future reference. So please don't go off on another "rant" on how people are not experienced at my age. I thought most people here were willing to help 'teenagers' but the past couple of days I've been proven wrong (not everyone have been like this, some people are very supportive may I add)

[Ynot]

Oh, for crying out loud!!!!!!

 

Let's get this straight.

 

WE ARE NOT ANTI TEENAGERS.

HOWEVER, what we (those with any modicum of actual experience...) ARE keen to do is to offer advice to ANYONE who asks.

That advice is most times influenced BY the experience many of us have had.

The fact that it's not what the teens out there are wanting is hardly a surprise, nor should it be!

 

You, young sir, posted a bland question asking about insurance for freelancers.

You got replies based on the fact that you are - as a matter of fact - in the considered opinion of several people WITH EXPERIENCE to be too young to seriously consider being a freelancer.

And the reasons for that were clearly given.

 

The fact that now you're saying it's 'for future reference' is irrelevent, to be honest.

There are FAR too many teens who think that owning cheap kit and doing a few discos or band gigs for their mates qualifies them to be 'in business'.

 

For chrissakes, if you're serious about making this your career, just get out and learn the basics, with people who know what those basics ARE, then look at getting a proper EMPLOYED job with a decent company before you even think about going solo.

 

You WILL get all the support you need, as long as it's appropriate to what you're actually doing and the position you're in or have a chance of being in.

 

And yes, there ARE exceptions to every rule, and someone will no doubt be along soon telling us how they started their 'business' at 13, and now at the age of 35 is a millionaire... But they're EXCEPTIONS, NOT the rule.

 

Yes, this WAS a rant, and one I'm not going to step down from.

B-) :) :D ;)

 

Jeez.

 

:(

[tolley1466]

Oh, for crying out loud!!!!!!

 

Let's get this straight.

 

WE ARE NOT ANTI TEENAGERS.

HOWEVER, what we (those with any modicum of actual experience...) ARE keen to do is to offer advice to ANYONE who asks.

That advice is most times influenced BY the experience many of us have had.

The fact that it's not what the teens out there are wanting is hardly a surprise, nor should it be!

 

You, young sir, posted a bland question asking about insurance for freelancers.

You got replies based on the fact that you are - as a matter of fact - in the considered opinion of several people WITH EXPERIENCE to be too young to seriously consider being a freelancer.

And the reasons for that were clearly given.

 

The fact that now you're saying it's 'for future reference' is irrelevent, to be honest.

There are FAR too many teens who think that owning cheap kit and doing a few discos or band gigs for their mates qualifies them to be 'in business'.

 

Who said I was going to buy s*** equipment?

 

Don't see the point.

I don't want to have a rant or anyone else to, for that fact.

Sorry for posting such a stupid question, I don't really want to get pulled into some pointless rant/argument, whats the point?

 

Well I got some good information out this post, yes okay age is a problem, but it doesn't mean I have no experience!

[JDP]

Well I got some good information out this post, yes okay age is a problem, but it doesn't mean I have no experience!

 

Nobody said it means you have no experience - it means you have little (if any) professional experience, which you are attempting to 'sell' to your clients. IF you call yourself freelance, and say yes when someone asks you to do an arena job, then you could potentially become a fatal floor to the crew - as the likelyhood is you will need close supervision, as at 16 your unlikey to have area experiences under your belt. Employing a freelancer that needs close supervision is pointless.

 

At the end of the day, when you ask companies for freelance work, the "I am 16 years old" isn't the second sentence. And because of this, there is the possibility for you to get booked on a job where you are totally out of your depth. This is why advice to 16 - 21 year olds on the whole (unless they show excessively good skills and industry knowlede - which the way you spelt freelancers is clear you don't have a clue about) is to gain work in the warehouse at a local company, or casual venue work. It is extremely rare (if at all likely) to advise someone who is 16 years old to go out and call them selves 'freelance'....

 

All the above aside, Tolley, IF you do become 'freelance' as you say, how are you going to tell this to HMRC? How are you going to be paying tax and NI, and how will you fit this into your current school/college work. Not trying to get at you, just genuinely interested to how you have planned it will fit it all togher... :)

[Bobbsy]

I debated whether or not it was worth posting in here since things have already "kicked off" and turned into the usual "you're too young"-"you're anti teenager" argument. However, I think maybe there are things that should be said:

Why we boring old gits seem negative to teenagers

 

Even though it can be easy to forget, we work with equipment that is full of potential dangers. Simple things like a "speaker on a stick" could kill somebody if it fell on an audience member. A parcan on a T-bar could start a fire and burn down "Blueroomington" Village Hall if it gets too close to those 6 year old Halloween decorations stuck to the ceiling.

 

Lately, I suspect because we old gits hammer on about it, the younger members of the BR have become aware of the existence of and need for Public Liability Insurance (PLI). Note to the OP: there's no such thing as "Free Lancer Insurance" or even "freelancer insurance". It was PLI that you were asking about. PLI is what pays the claim arising from the lawsuit when something you have done kills or injures somebody or damages property. It's worth pointing out that, as a minor, if the worst DOES happen and you're not insured, your parents can be sued for everything they own. Would they really support your "business" if they realised that one accident could cost them their house?

 

Why is it hard for you to get PLI? Well, like any insurance policy the company issuing it is betting on you and your skills in the hopes that they won't have to pay out that five million. However, before they bet on you, they want to be fairly confident that you have the knowledge and skills which make you likely to operate things in as safe a manner as possible. This is where it gets tricky. You may think you have the experience to operate safely but the reality is that it's more likely you simply "don't know what you don't know". Please don't take this as "anti teenager" but every old git like me on the board has seen the "misplaced confidence of youth" far too often. I know that in my own case, even after 35 years working professionally, I'm far more aware of my limitations now than I was as a teenager.

 

Add to this the fact that, as a minor, you cannot sign binding contracts and cannot be held legally responsible for your mistakes and you can see how messy it all gets.

 

What I can say is that asking the wrong question (no such thing as "freelancer insurance" much less "Free Lancer Insurance", remember?) and then getting snippy when the professionals who KNOW a thing or two don't give you the answers you want does nothing to improve the image of teenagers either in the industry or on this board. If you go and read the "Issues" forum you will see that there's an adult backlash calling for the posting rights of underage members to be severely restricted. So far these ideas have been rejected, but the day is getting closer.

 

I assume you post here because you want informed advice from people with substantial experience. If this is the case, then snapping back when the advice doesn't suit you is not the best way to "win friends and influence people". On the other hand, if you don't really want advice and only post to try and "look big" then, frankly, maybe you should consider whether this is the place for you.

 

Bob