Lighting Control Prototype

[kev_bite]

Hello Everyone!

Just wondered if a few people could help me out with my finial year dissertation for uni?

I am creating a prototype PC lighting controller and I need to research the features of a lighting desk are most important to the users? like personalities to circle pattens?

 

So any comments are welcome :) I will be very grateful :)

 

Kev

[niclights]

This has been asked and answered many times before. A search should help :)

[gareth]

Seems a little bit like re-inventing the wheel, but ...

 

Firstly, I think you need to identify what your market is - is this to be a PC-based controller with additional user interface hardware that can be used for some fairly complex programming? Or are you looking at creating something that'll just run a few scanners or small moving heads for "Disco Dave and his Mobile Music Machine" type outfits? Once you've established that, have a look at some of the established products that are already out there in the marketplace, and see what they can/can't do.

[kev_bite]

Hello,

Cheers so far... Well its ideally its purpose is to be a "live" PC console controller, so I thought about just having pallets and chases on like the "run" screen. and ideally it needs to be simple to use.

 

Kev

[Andrew C]

For me, the two most important features would be the ergonomics/work flow and reliability.

[The Gaffa]

I'd agree with Andrew, plus it would need to be able to react quickly to changes.

[Modge]

A few thoughts:

Firstly many companies (us NOT included at least until we're ready to beta test I'm afraid - it isn't yet fit for public consumption!) make there software available from there website for free to download. I would suggest you have a look at some of the software that's out there and ask your self? "What can I do that's better than this?" then go do it. Whilst actually working is of course vital, interface is very, very important in this market - it has to be easy to pick up and use by e.g. a visit lighting guy who's never seen nor heard of it before. I'd almost argue it was a better project for an interface design module than a programming one - aside from anything else you have a hope of doing it in the time you have to do a 3rd year project.

 

Further it can be a complex game, depending on how far you want to take it - A friend of mine (with much talent in this area) when I was at university tried to do this as a project and it ended up some what hindering his final degree mark when it didn't work when he was meant to demonstrate it.

 

Just to give an idea of complexity our source directory's file count runs to 4 digits now...

[Biskit]

Further it can be a complex game, depending on how far you want to take it - A friend of mine (with much talent in this area) when I was at university tried to do this as a project and it ended up some what hindering his final degree mark when it didn't work when he was meant to demonstrate it.

 

Just to give an idea of complexity our source directory's file count runs to 4 digits now...

 

I can see two sides of this... on one hand, I also had a friend who attempted a similar thing at Uni as a final year project. This was some 5 or 6 years ago, and at the time he couldn't get hold of suitable hardware to realise the DMX output. Functionality was based on Strand GSX style syntax. AFAIK it worked 'virtually', ie. cues/scenes/chases etc could be saved and played back, and DMX values displayed on a monitor. The difficult part was the GUI. This never really happened, and the program only ever worked with command line input, which was where he lost a lot of marks.

 

In terms of complexity, the program need not be massive, even if it extends to running shape generators etc. Avo's Pearl (not Expert) is still a current console, considered to be one of the best, yet even the current 2010 and Tiger versions still run on a mid-1990s Motorola processor with less power than most modern mobile phones. That said, as I understand it, the code is now so streamlined to fit this hardware that there is hardly a single unused register BIT at all! Now that is efficiency! It is, of course, also an impresive feat in itself.

 

I learned a bit of programming in my Electronic Engineering degree, both in C and Assembler, and I have a lot of respect for programmers who can bleed every bit of function out of limited hardware. I'd argue that doing something like this should gain higher marks than a scheme with possibly more function but inefficient code justified becuse today's PCs are so ridiculously powerful that it doesn't matter! Perhaps I'm just old fashioned?

 

To the OP - is your degree in programming, or more specific to Stage Lighting? This would have a bearing on how you approach the project, I guess.

 

Ben.

[kev_bite]

I learned a bit of programming in my Electronic Engineering degree, both in C and Assembler, and I have a lot of respect for programmers who can bleed every bit of function out of limited hardware. I'd argue that doing something like this should gain higher marks than a scheme with possibly more function but inefficient code justified becuse today's PCs are so ridiculously powerful that it doesn't matter! Perhaps I'm just old fashioned?

 

To the OP - is your degree in programming, or more specific to Stage Lighting? This would have a bearing on how you approach the project, I guess.

 

Ye I see where your coming from, my degree is on Software Engineering so its solid programming, but there's no point in writing my program in c/c++ as even cheap 200quid laptop will be able to cope with the work load. I thought about writing it in c#.Net so many functions that I will use will already be created for me.

I think if I had more time to develop it I would write it in c++ as I like having more control of what's happening thought out my programs but I think it would take me far 2 much time.

 

Iv also had another thought in to my mind about visualisation, does anyone know if there's a simple API to visualisation software? or is it just easier to broadcast on artnet?

 

Cheers for help so far guys making my cogs turn in my head :)

[mark_s]

I haven't got much to add on the functionality front, but...

 

there's no point in writing my program in c/c++ as even cheap 200quid laptop will be able to cope with the work load. I thought about writing it in c#.Net so many functions that I will use will already be created for me.

I think if I had more time to develop it I would write it in c++ as I like having more control of what's happening thought out my programs but I think it would take me far 2 much time.

 

If you're competent with C++, it can be quite a quick language to develop in when coupled with a framework such as Qt. What you're saying might be true of C, but C++ isn't C; it's a lot higher-level and it's so much easier to develop in. People not quite understanding that is a bit of a pet hate of mine :)

 

Moot point though as I doubt you are particularly familiar or competent with it, and it can still be a dangerous language much like C...

[martinw]

If you're competent with C++, it can be quite a quick language to develop in when coupled with a framework such as Qt

Qt is really popular for lighting control applications - I can think of at least 5 different companies working in this area who use Qt, some targeting just Windows, and others releasing genuine multi-platform apps for Windows, Mac and Linux.

 

Martin

[kev_bite]

If you're competent with C++, it can be quite a quick language to develop in when coupled with a framework such as Qt

Qt is really popular for lighting control applications - I can think of at least 5 different companies working in this area who use Qt, some targeting just Windows, and others releasing genuine multi-platform apps for Windows, Mac and Linux.

 

Martin

 

O right.. never heared of it before, iv only used the STL's and iv never done anything with GUIs in C++ only console based Applications.

 

Kev

[Biskit]

my degree is on Software Engineering so its solid programming, but there's no point in writing my program in c/c++ as even cheap 200quid laptop will be able to cope with the work load. I thought about writing it in c#.Net so many functions that I will use will already be created for me.

I think if I had more time to develop it I would write it in c++ as I like having more control of what's happening thought out my programs but I think it would take me far 2 much time.

 

Its funny to compare... because my degre was Electronic Engineering, we were programming primarily for small digital electronic projects. Typically we'd write code to run on a PIC 16F84 chip. We thought of C as a 'dirty' language which did not give nearly enough control over timings and register usage. When we needed this, we used Assembler and had timings down to an accuracy of a single machine cycle. VERY time consuming though!

 

Ben.

[martinw]

O right.. never heared of it before, iv only used the STL's and iv never done anything with GUIs in C++ only console based Applications.

I highly recommend it - its very easy to use, and free for non-commercial projects. It covers the entire framework of an application, not just the GUI.

 

Martin

[Wol]

second a vote for Qt (cute, not cue-tee). Theres a lot of functionality there, and its nicely cross platform.

 

Like Biskit, my degree is Electronic Engineering, and the stuff we were taught was very basic assembler, and basic c. For PICs, as much as assembler is nice as you have low level control, when you move to larger devices, you don't really have a choice. (well, not unless you want to implement a networking stack in assembler). C isn't a dirty language as such, its just that the compiler doesn't do the best job it can in some cases!

 

As much as I've written control software in c#, its all very good having the niceties of the .net framework to hand, but when you start considering the amount of stuff that you're processing realtime, it can get sluggish if you don't really think about what you're doing.

 

W.r.t features: why not try something new, thats not just mimicking lighting desks how they currently appear. If you're on a PC based solution, use the fact that you have a nice monitor and have a lot of visuals / graphics available to you easily....