Interesting Dilemma

[nothingatall666]

My role is lighting designer, of which I have quite a bit of experience. (Whenever I go to the theatre I always seem to concentrate on the lighting design.)

sorry, but that did make me chuckle for a while.

so what real experiance have you had? *curious*

 

I also agree with the majority, fix what is broken first. rather than neglecting it and hiring something that does the same job.

 

As you are a student you will eventually move on from the school and job. you have to think about the people next in line to you, I would be pretty gutted if I found out the equipment was half broken. next year. the budget may not be as big. and will not be able to hire anything in. (although we all know its not the amount of lights, its how you use them.)

 

our school only uses 20odd fixtures on a fairly average sized stage, but we don't stop to think. 'this year. we will hire in loads of equipment' we make sure everything we already have is working. before hiring in extras.

[Nick LX]

My role is lighting designer, of which I have quite a bit of experience. (Whenever I go to the theatre I always seem to concentrate on the lighting design.)

sorry, but that did make me chuckle for a while.

so what real experiance have you had? *curious*

 

That probably sounds quite bad together. Those 2 comments were supposed to be separate. The experience is four past plays at my school, as well as 2 live music events. I was just saying that I always look at the lighting design in professional theatres if I am there.

[gareth]

My role is lighting designer, of which I have quite a bit of experience ... four past plays at my school, as well as 2 live music events

Hint : lighting four school plays and a couple of bands is not "quite a bit of experience" ...

[daifuse]

IMHO, in many years of both drama and musicals (classic), I've yet to be able to justify the expense of hiring in movers. It's simpler and easier with generics. Russ has definitely got the right way of going about it sensibly.

[JDP]

I am currently on tour with Avo FD Racks, and these have been in service since about '85 and no issues yet. The most likely to go wrong with these beasts is the Decoder.

 

How easy is it to program on a Pearl with moving lights? Well, when you say you have 'experience' with the Pearl, what is this. Surely if you have had proper experience then you will know how it is to program with pallets?

 

For reference, Pearls are good to use with pallets when your doing a rock gig or festival, not so for theatre. Many other desks are good for theatre, which you can hire cheaply, these still store pallets with and have a 'proper' cue stack.. For a start, the Road Hog, these tend to go out of the door for £350 - £400 each and program in a similiar way to a ETC Express, and they have Mark Cue options.

 

Running this kind of a show from a Pearl will be a headache for you, especially if you want a stack, with tracking, mark cues etc. The Pearl doesn't track AND you can't get any more opposite than programming an ETC Express and a Pearl. If you want advice on where you can get cheap moving lights and a Hog I PC or Road Hog, send me a PM, I can recommend somewhere in London.

[LXbydesign]

Simple,

 

as LD, you design your rig around the requiremnts of the production , the set design and, yes ,in some respects the space and how it functions.

You dont use your budget to hire in a load of kit - whatever it is - and then make your designs around that. Totally wrong.

[Bobbsy]

Something I have a problem with is time constraints. I have been attending rehearsals, so I am already getting an idea of design, as well as equipment. I think technically it would be easier for us to get half and half. We have tech one weekend and then perfomances start 1 week after that.

 

Thanks

 

I have some degree of sympathy with the problem you may have spending a hire budget on maintenance. Accountants can be a different breed and not see logic.

 

However, what I would say is that the "I have time constraints so I might hire movers" argument never really works. It's generally far faster to hang and point generics than to put up movers (with their need for non-dimmed power and DMX) and then programme them. The advice to do your design then decide what you need to achieve it is good. If the show wants flashing, dancing lights, so be it. If not, then use what you need...but don't try to rationalise a desire to play with sexy kit.

 

Bob

[adam2]

I would agree that getting the dimmers fixed should be the first priority, I appreciate that the OP does not have the authority to do this, but it should be firmly suggested to those in charge.

 

Have any basic checks and tests been carried out to determine what is wrong with them ? 10 years is certainly not old!

 

Simple dimmer checks

1) Is the output fuse intact, the correct rating, and the correct type/dimensions.

2) Is the fuse holder intact and in good condition.

3) Are the output connections correctly labeled to socket outlets or a patch panel

4) Is mains input present on all channels, the "failure" of about a third of the channels can be a 3 phase supply with only 2 phases working, due to a blown fuse upsteam or defective wiring.

 

If the dimmer channel is faulty this is generally because the triac has failed, replacement is relativly easy on most types, subject to the usuall caveats regarding competance,experience, and working with mains voltage equipment.

[MrBoomal]

If no one will listen to you about repairing the dimmers, then you could try printing out all the replies you've had and showing that to whoever is in charge.

 

Personally find it rather worrying that who ever is in charge doesn't care that half your equipment isn't working. How does he know it isn't because of a potentially dangerous electrical fault?

[gherriott]

To answer some of the original poster's questions about which is easier to program with, movers or generics, well that all depends on what you have had more experience with. The obvious answer is always going to be generics, you don't have to worry about DMX addressing issues (as much), don't have to worry about matching your HMI sourced colours to your tungsten sourced colours from your generics, you don't have to worry about getting them from one cue to the next without any live tracks and so on, and another thing is, it is much easier and quicker to hang a generic than it is to hang a moving head (just thinking if you are rigging on your own too). However having said this, they do have their advantages, it allows you to accommodate any changes the director makes during the tech without having to go up a ladder and refocus (however if it is designed well you will have some contingency in your rig anyway). I personally prefer working with moving heads and intelligents, PURELY because I am a programmer and like the challenge, and think the key word there is 'challenge', they can be a right royal pain in the backside when they go wrong.

 

When I was in college, I was in much a similar position as you, I got given a budget and my immediate thought was, 'ok, what new things can I get in and then fit my design around that?'. I soon learned that although that might worka few times and you might get away with a half decent looking design, it is nowhere as near as efficient and artistic as firstly creating a design, casting all luminares aside, and then go back and figure out how you will achieve those ideas for each scene. You then go back again and see which luminares can be re-used/used in more than one situation, thus building up slowly a suitable design for the whole show. Once that is done, THEN you look at your budget and figure out what you can afford, start off with the most important then as you run out of money you start to substitute the less important thing, or even scrap them all together.

 

It took me a while to go from getting in the equipment and then hanging it up and playing around until I found a 'pretty' state, to actually seeing the luminares as tools to realise my design, not buying random tools and trying to get a design out of them, if that makes sense!

 

Something that flagged up a concern in my mind was your choice of desk. For a musical, theatre based performance I do not think the pearl is the best choice of desk (this is where I get a flood of opinions against this, but I will just give an opinion based on my personal experience here). The reason for this is that the pearl is more designed for concert/rock and roll type events, live busking and so on. This means having to setup all your pallets beforehand quite comprehensively in order to achieve a well oiled show. I would recommend a desk more suited to cue stacking where you can create your groups on the go and also have a tracking system where you will be able to build cues nice and quickly, which is always useful especially in college situations where your techs seem to be very pushed for time. To be honest this may be the last thing on your mind right now, and if you are able to get the Pearl cheaply or already own it then, I would say just stay with that if you are comfortable with it.

 

I hope this has helped in some way, if you have anymore specific questions then just ask.

 

Greg

[Nick LX]

I would agree that getting the dimmers fixed should be the first priority, I appreciate that the OP does not have the authority to do this, but it should be firmly suggested to those in charge.

 

Have any basic checks and tests been carried out to determine what is wrong with them ? 10 years is certainly not old!

 

Simple dimmer checks

1) Is the output fuse intact, the correct rating, and the correct type/dimensions.

2) Is the fuse holder intact and in good condition.

3) Are the output connections correctly labeled to socket outlets or a patch panel

4) Is mains input present on all channels, the "failure" of about a third of the channels can be a 3 phase supply with only 2 phases working, due to a blown fuse upsteam or defective wiring.

 

If the dimmer channel is faulty this is generally because the triac has failed, replacement is relativly easy on most types, subject to the usuall caveats regarding competance,experience, and working with mains voltage equipment.

 

Believe me on this: I can suggest as much as I can, however nothing will be done. You might have seen an earlier post where I explained that the theatre manager was a man, who chooses to ignore everything but himself.

 

 

If no one will listen to you about repairing the dimmers, then you could try printing out all the replies you've had and showing that to whoever is in charge.

 

Personally find it rather worrying that who ever is in charge doesn't care that half your equipment isn't working. How does he know it isn't because of a potentially dangerous electrical fault?

 

As above. Although technically I think the fuse for the individual channels are broken (when I mention dimmers are broken I meant that maybe one or two channels on each rack didn't work).. The red light underneath the plug is not lit up. It isn't my position however to fix these.

 

To answer some of the original poster's questions about which is easier to program with, movers or generics, well that all depends on what you have had more experience with. The obvious answer is always going to be generics, you don't have to worry about DMX addressing issues (as much), don't have to worry about matching your HMI sourced colours to your tungsten sourced colours from your generics, you don't have to worry about getting them from one cue to the next without any live tracks and so on, and another thing is, it is much easier and quicker to hang a generic than it is to hang a moving head (just thinking if you are rigging on your own too). However having said this, they do have their advantages, it allows you to accommodate any changes the director makes during the tech without having to go up a ladder and refocus (however if it is designed well you will have some contingency in your rig anyway). I personally prefer working with moving heads and intelligents, PURELY because I am a programmer and like the challenge, and think the key word there is 'challenge', they can be a right royal pain in the backside when they go wrong.

 

When I was in college, I was in much a similar position as you, I got given a budget and my immediate thought was, 'ok, what new things can I get in and then fit my design around that?'. I soon learned that although that might worka few times and you might get away with a half decent looking design, it is nowhere as near as efficient and artistic as firstly creating a design, casting all luminares aside, and then go back and figure out how you will achieve those ideas for each scene. You then go back again and see which luminares can be re-used/used in more than one situation, thus building up slowly a suitable design for the whole show. Once that is done, THEN you look at your budget and figure out what you can afford, start off with the most important then as you run out of money you start to substitute the less important thing, or even scrap them all together.

 

It took me a while to go from getting in the equipment and then hanging it up and playing around until I found a 'pretty' state, to actually seeing the luminares as tools to realise my design, not buying random tools and trying to get a design out of them, if that makes sense!

 

Something that flagged up a concern in my mind was your choice of desk. For a musical, theatre based performance I do not think the pearl is the best choice of desk (this is where I get a flood of opinions against this, but I will just give an opinion based on my personal experience here). The reason for this is that the pearl is more designed for concert/rock and roll type events, live busking and so on. This means having to setup all your pallets beforehand quite comprehensively in order to achieve a well oiled show. I would recommend a desk more suited to cue stacking where you can create your groups on the go and also have a tracking system where you will be able to build cues nice and quickly, which is always useful especially in college situations where your techs seem to be very pushed for time. To be honest this may be the last thing on your mind right now, and if you are able to get the Pearl cheaply or already own it then, I would say just stay with that if you are comfortable with it.

 

I hope this has helped in some way, if you have anymore specific questions then just ask.

 

Greg

 

Which desk would you recommend? I am attending the rehearsals all this week, so will hopefully get a better idea of what I need to design. I read the script last night as well, so I think I am getting somewhere.

[smalljoshua]

How about telling the Theatre Manager the hire company wants to see your equipment that they will be suppling a desk for it. Then ask the Hire company to bring some fuses along with them just in case it is just those.

 

Josh

[billy jim]

It may not be your position to fix them, but surely a simple fuse replacement...?!

[Nick LX]

Nor is it my position to buy the fuses. Sorry!

[Ynot]

Nor is it my position to buy the fuses. Sorry!

WHAT???!!!

 

So you mean that

a) you haven't tried to prove these 'faulty circuits' by substituting a known good fuse (from a working channel) in each of the suspect outlets?

b) that this school is sooo penny pinching that (having done (a) and found many WILL work after all) that they won't stump up a fraction of that £2k budget to buy fuses to replace them???

 

Unbe-freaking-lievable!!!!