kikabyte Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 The singer of my band likes to use a TC Helicon Vocal Correct unit for assistance mainly at the end of the night. It is designed to go on the floor in front of the singer, looping the mic through and back to the mixer. I have convinced him to let the unit next to the mixer so I can see when the thing is clipping etc, but I am just wondering if this is the best way to have it set up. Our singer uses a SM58 Beta, and so you have to enable Phantom Power on the vocal correct unit (yes it doesn’t pass through from the mixer). Would I be best adding the unit as an insert, so the pre amps from our mixer do all the work, and I have a better control over clipping and signal strength? Or is it best left where it is? Also, if I did patch it in as an insert, should for any reason it get switched onto Phantom power, is this going to cause any problems? Help much appreciatedChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techsupport Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 rtfm @http://www.tc-helicon.com/Default.asp?Id=2963 maybe send from an aux and back to fx return, phantom if required can then be from the board as normal.cheers but you should read the manual, it took me less than 30secs to track it down. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 The imortant thing with this kind of unit is to get it out of the monitor path, so having it as an insert at FOH makes sense. If it has to go on stage then a split from the mic before the box is just about mandatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djandydee Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 A Beta 58 dosen't require phantom power. It is dynamic. If used as an insert there would be no danger to the desk if the unit has 48V left switched on providing you use the balanced Jack inputs and outputs and a standard insert lead with tip send ring return. Stay completely away from the XLR mic input and pass through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 The imortant thing with this kind of unit is to get it out of the monitor path, so having it as an insert at FOH makes sense. If it has to go on stage then a split from the mic before the box is just about mandatory. Providing the monitor sends are PRE insert. Not all desks are. We can safely assume its a 1 desk gig as the OP talks about their desk rather than their FOH desk, so it's important to make sure the aux outs are PRE insert so as not to send this back through the monitors. A Beta 58 dosen't require phantom power. It is dynamic. If used as an insert there would be no danger to the desk if the unit has 48V left switched on providing you use the balanced Jack inputs and outputs and a standard insert lead with tip send ring return. Stay completely away from the XLR mic input and pass through Agree with the bit about putting it on an insert, but be careful. Not all desks inserts are wired the same way. Check in your user manual for the desk as to which way it's wired. How well does this unit work?How bad are things without it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 In regards to Aux sends. How about splitting the Mic before the unit then feeding one half of the split through the unit and the other half direct into the desk to allow the singer to select how much of the wet/dry mix he wants. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Josh, Are you aware, in any way, as to what this unit does. Would anyone really want both wet and dry signals? Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 I was just offering a solution to the problem with pre/post inserts & having the unit in the mons signal path. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 With respect, Josh, that doesn't answer the question. Are you aware of what this unit does? And why you wouldn't want a mix of wet and dry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 I am vaguely aware of what the unit does but as I have never used one I don't know whether the artist would want a mix of wet/dry or one or the other. I was just stating how I have seen it done on one desk gigs where the monitor feeds required both wet for the singer and dry for the rest of the band. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Just to spell it out, the effect is (among one or two other things) a vocal pitch correction tool. It's unlikely that you'll want to tune the vocal, then mix it back into an untuned version of itself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Right. It's a pitch correct unit. Similar to the Autotune plug ins etc for Protools. You normally don't want the dry signal, it is not an effects processor, its use it to enhance the vocal and make it sound more in tune... therefore you wouldn't want the raw (un-tuned/ out of tune) signal at all. What you describe is indeed a possible way to run reverb and effects, however in this situation does not apply. Perhaps a quick skim of the manual next time may help to give you a better idea before posting about something with which you have had no direct experience... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 That said, for most effects units you would expect to run them from an aux and back into a channel. the dry mix sent to monitor sends from its channel and the wet mix from the aux return or channel used as an fx return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kikabyte Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 Sorry, I haven’t managed to get my laptop online for a few days! Ok, so I get the impression your suggesting its best to plug the mic directly into the mixer rather adding the voice correct unit in the chain.. so… Some information first… First, I got the mic wrong, it’s a Shure Beta 87A.. sorry The correct unit has one input, but it has two outputs, one is the dry signal, one is the ‘modified’ signal. So I have in the past, wondered whether I should take the dry output and patch that into the singers monitor mix, that way he won’t get lazy?!? Then just let the altered signal come out through the FOH. We do only have the one desk, and it is a Yamaha MG 206… I quote from the manual the following:"InsertThese jacks can be used to insert an external signal-processingdevice between the equalizer and fader of the correspondingmonaural input channel." Does this mean that if I plugged the vocal correct into the mixers insert, It would apply itself after the auxiliary sends anyway? So I would get dry signal coming back to the singer, and the altered vocal going to the FOH speakers?? We have no Axillaries left on the mixer, we use three for monitor mixes, and the last one for effects, so it wouldn’t be an option to insert the correction device that way.. sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamienip Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 sound isnt normally my domain so tell me to "do one" if need be.... if you have a spare input on the desk, can you not take the direct out from the original mic source, feed it trough the autotune device, and back into the new input, then you have control of both from your desk, to send to wherever you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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