Sound In Gloucestershire Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 also if you dared to threaten legal actions after 30 days, you'll never work for them again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidso Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I know that but all it takes is one person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy jackson Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Has anyone consulted BECTU? I have changed union as I now work in education but it would have been my first port of call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDP Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Some interesting responses. To throw another 'spanner in the works' the company also insist that if you claim travel expenses and/or parking that they have a receipt of this. Usually, I will put a set amount on of (say) £10, when I have only paid £8 etc Mostly due the fact its near on impossible to physically show a receipt for the fuel and also because I feel that theres no reason for me not to. Afterall, I have gone to the trouble of sorting it all out, and I know for a fact that AV companies add on money to what they claim to be freelancer's PD's - so why can't I make a few quid on parking, C Zone etc Anyone do this, not do this, send receipts for expenses rather than a set amount on the invoice etc? Edit, I should add, I am not trying to rip them off and charge them £100 when I have paid £5 for parking - but certainly if parking is say £36, which is common in London, I more often than not charge £40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Hope-Streeter Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 ...also if you dared to threaten legal actions after 30 days, you'll never work for them again... That is why this "Law" is unenforcible and, for freelances, a waste of time. Since it was introduced I have known two people who were daft enought to try it out. One guy used it on a well known sound company who regularly take 3 months to pay. He worked for 3 or 4 other regulars, but this one supplied about a third of his work. They paid up but then decided he "would not be required" for all the future jobs he had pencilled in for them. The word must have travelled well, because one of his other regulars did exactly the same thing at around the same time. Seeing the writing on the wall, he managed to get a full-time job with a manufacturer and is now better off than when he was freelancing. The other one was not so lucky. He was stupid enough to use this law to demand payment from all three of his clients, who had always taken 60 or 90 days to pay. He ended up with no almost work at all and soon ran out of money. He cancelled his PL insurance (but with hardly any work coming in, this was quite a low risk strategy - and I know there will be howls of disapproval in reply to that comment) and ran up large credit card bills. After receiving a tax bill he couldn't pay, he declared himself bankrupt. He now works nights in a large Sainsbury's warehouse and his take-home pay is less than £300 a week. What really annoys me about all this, and has prompted this reply, is that I was recently present at a high-powered business seminar (on the tech crew of course) where one of the speakers actually recommended using self-employed workers as a means of obtaining interest free credit, on the grounds that they will normally put up with 90 days or more because they need the work and daren't do anything to enforce prompt payment. This is what happens when you have a non-unionized casual workforce who like to pretend they are self-employed subcontractors. Nomex PPE duly donned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 In a further twist to the tale... A "certain company", possibly the one mentioned in the OP (whose name I discovered from an "off-forum" source ;) ), has allegedly told their freelancers, that they must drop their rates by one third, in order to be paid in 30 days, otherwise they will be paid in... ... 120 days :o :o :o Just what planet are these people living on? :huh: The matter has apparently been referred to BECTU; although confidence is low, that they will actually be able to do anything about it :( This is what happens when you have a non-unionized casual workforce who like to pretend they are self-employed subcontractors.Bang on; but you forgot to say, "...and will do anything to get work in showbusiness - including undercutting their mates by however much it takes". :D And they wonder why there's a shortage of "good, skilled" crew these days. Well, derrrrrr ;) The words "peanuts" and "monkeys" spring to mind. I was just saying to someone today, that there is absolutely no f*cking way I would ever consider going back into freelancing. I'd sooner lie across the railway tracks and wait for the train to come :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lee Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 That is why this "Law" is unenforcible and, for freelances, a waste of time I've used late payments legislation on a company and had no problems, got paid with compensation and interest. It is the company which gets the bad reputation, not you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djw1981 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 That is why this "Law" is unenforcible and, for freelances, a waste of time I've used late payments legislation on a company and had no problems, got paid with compensation and interest. It is the company which gets the bad reputation, not you.But did you ever work for them again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lee Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Why would I want to work for them again? They have proven that they are bad payers and therefore should be avoided unless they pay up front. It was more that people here were worried that they may get a bad reputation for chasing up money owed. As long as you do it correctly, you will be fine. It is the company that get a bad reputation amongst the freelancers, and most production companies depend upon a good supply of known and competent freelancers. But in answer to the question "did I ever work for them again?", I have heard nothing bad about what I did. I would only work for them if they pay cash up front. They have done this before for me and it will be a requirement once more. Plenty more fish in the sea and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 If you actually NEED one work provider so much that you cannot chase for payment then you are likely approaching a casual employee already, and should be paid as such, with deductions for tax etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boogie Man Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 A quick question troops, Is everyone sending out contracts with T+C's and interest charges for late payment before comencing work for these companys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 The sad thing is that these work providers usually ring up and say "here's a job, do you want it?" IF you say yes then they then tell you what it is where it is and how much you will get owed. The small print is likely on the back of the contract - if they ever send you anything on paper. Far too many work providers are really providers of occasional non exclusive casual employment, except they call it self employment to reduce their accounting complexities. No doubt, most members of this place have "been offered" and accepted bookings then been told the price allowed two days into the job. I have one at the moment, he wants me to do 4 evenings of 4 hours but one has 5 hours drive each way! So far he has given me all the details except the pay. He thinks I want to do it "for experience" I've already made it very clear that I expect proper pay. I'm also in the fortunate position that I have a full time job and do pyro as a part time and occasional but real job. so if he doesn't come up with the pay he needs a volunteer CDG driver for 4 nights at no notice! However several (most) members here ts industry for their primary income, so sometimes do take work when they are not in control of the T&Cs maybe thay haven't even seen them. There IS a huge skills shortage, but it's largely caused by people failing to pay a living rate on time,for the skilled people to want to stay in the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 The job that causes the trouble is the "phone call/do job/haggle over money and terms" and though we all say we don't, we do rely on these to make ends meet, and work providers know that and play on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stringman Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Interesting post. I am pretty sure I know who the company is. I have worked for them once but I have not had the letter! They have tried to book me but I was busy. It will be interesting to know what happens if they do book me. My answer to some of the other points raised. some of my clients ask for my travel receipts! they get copies of the receipts I spend and they get charged mileage at a pre agreed rate. With regards to the terms and conditions on payment terms. the law states that unless BOTH parties agree the legal payment terms are 30days.For terms and conditions to be agreed legally both parties need to have signed copies. IT is not enough to say on your po terms and conditions apply. with regards to late payment chargesI have issued it several times.Once the company refused to accept it so I issued a CCJ! they paid it very promptly. Yes I still work for them and they now pay me promptly!The other company accepted it but went into administarion last Friday so I guess I wont see that. Interestingly if the company mentioned by the op is the one I think it is- then half the people from the company in administration are alledged to be going to the first company (if that makes sense) interesting times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Just a(nother) reminder to say that care and advice should be taken, when writing a set of T&Cs, just in case you inadvertantly write yourself into being classed as an employee. The PSA are / were able to offer such advice - although you (obviously) have to be a member to access it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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