Allowing filming of Dance shows

[lx bear]

Sorry if this is in the wrong place but I wasnt sure where to post it.

 

My query is this: The theatre that I work at is a private school theatre that is hired out at weekends for extra revenue. We get quite a few dance schools hire it - its a no frills venue, you hire the theatre, get basic sound and lx - anything else the hirer pays for example running a bar, cleaning, any staff inc Tech,PRS/PPL etc.

 

Some of the schools tell us that they are going to be filming the show and selling the DVDs, are there any special licences required for this? Our theatre is fully licenced so performance wise its ok, Im just not sure if there is anything else that we need or is it none of our business as the hirer hires the building and is responsible for it during there hire period.

 

I've searched google as well as the blue room but cant find any information on this type of thing.

 

 

Thanks in advance

 

Sarah

[PDD]

AFAIK, if the piece is entirely original (presumably this also extends to entirely original music, which is unlikely I guess, although maybe covered by PRS/PPL, not sure...), then there is no problem - assuming parents/guardians don't object, and assuming the people making the video are commissioned by the dance school who would technically own the copyright if it was an original piece.

 

The only problem would be if they were filming anything which is or could be copyrighted to somebody else in any way. However, I wouldn't worry about it, it's not the venue's problem and you don't need any licence for it.

[landy]

Two thoughts, make it the resposibliitty of the hirer, ask trading standards as they should know about that sort of thing. Never heard of venues being licensed for merch. Thinking about it the orders will be done on site but maybe not the monies?

[gareth]

If they're simply hiring your venue, then it really isn't your problem. From their point of view, though, I'd imagine that they need to make sure they're paying the proper PRS for any recorded music that's used in the show ... and I also reckon they'd need to get written permission from the parent/guardian of every child who appears in the recording, otherwise they could end up in hot water legally-speaking.

[Ynot]

This one comes up from time to time, and to be frank I believe that it's mired in as many misnomers and mis-assumptions as H & S is in general.

 

Strictly speaking yes - the company doing the filming (as I understand it) has the responsibility to ensure that THEY have full permission and have paid for the right to re-record any music used in the video.

Realistically, though, short of a token notification to the PRS (if indeed they do that at all) many video 'companies' who film this sort of dance school show just won't bother.

And also realistically speaking the PRS are unlikely to generate a huge income from trying to rake in anything - even if they could identify how many sales were being made - it's just not really worth it for them for a handful of copies every now and then.

 

As for permission to film, I think this may also be a misunderstanding of the CPS regs. I've never come across anything specific (yet) which says that you can't film kids' shows per se, BUT in the climate that we live in this is likely to be the more sticky situation due to the aforementioned mis-read, so getting the parental consent forms sorted in advance is probably safer than not doing so.

[jason5d]

all fair points but....

 

we have camera crews going out to different venues around the country.

promotors pay us to shoot their dvd's which they sell.

 

we've not needed any licenses to shoot

 

note: if the disks are sold and the music is not your own you will need

permission

 

 

this is the kind of thing we do with no problems

 

http://www.franticuk.net/koko/

[revbobuk]

If they use music which is copyright, then they will need an MCPS/PRS licence. Most likely the 'Limited Manufacture Licence' will be relevant here - but check the details. And it isn't likely to be your responsibility to sort it; it'll be theirs.

[Ynot]

And it isn't likely to be your responsibility to sort it; it'll be theirs.

Whose?

[andy_s]

some venues will indeed charge a substantial facility fee to even get a camera out of its box, as they feel that the venue is easily identifiable; highly prestigious, and adds cachet to any video recording.

 

for example, the Albert Hall.

[Seano]

assuming parents/guardians don't object

 

Small, almost irrelevant point (but important I feel, because this is a common misconception and needs challenging imo):

The parents/guardians may feel entitled to object of course, but they have no legal basis for their objection - the children are taking part in a public performance so there is no 'expectation of privacy'. Of course you'd be wise to have them on your side, but there is no legal reason why you should need their permission.

[revbobuk]

And it isn't likely to be your responsibility to sort it; it'll be theirs.

Whose?

Sorry for not being clear - the Dance Schools that hire the premises, as they are the ones distributing the recordings.

[Ynot]

And it isn't likely to be your responsibility to sort it; it'll be theirs.

Whose?

Sorry for not being clear - the Dance Schools that hire the premises, as they are the ones distributing the recordings.

Actually, I would say that the prime responsibility for copyright would actually be the company doing the video work, as in fact they will be making the copies before the dance school distributes them.

 

Of course, if it's someone's dad filming and knocking the copies out on behalf of the school, then that's a little different - then maybe it comes down to the dance school itself...

[paulears]

If they do it properly, the Limited Distribution Licence will take care of any copyrighted music - but is really expensive.

 

For small runs, most people just do it and forget it - but, the information I was provided with was that putting a bit in the contract that says the responsibility for clearing copyright is with the client (as I have in mine) is rubbish. Nice to have but of no legal standing at all. If you produce a DVD or CD of copyright music performed by a local band none of the big duplication houses will touch it without proper paperwork absolving them of the responsibility - and you can't get that without doing it correctly.

 

The act of putting the tape contents into your editor puts any copyright music within the scope of MCPS, let alone then sticking it onto a DVD.

 

In practice, however, people do this kind of thing all of the time, and I can only think of one dance school who have done it properly. Considering the number of kids involved, I've never had any problems with dance type shows from a venue perspective. The ones I am aware of are very familiar with the idea of recording the shows and pay little attention.

 

 

Trading Standards? Nope. Not in their remit at all.

[revbobuk]

And it isn't likely to be your responsibility to sort it; it'll be theirs.

Whose?

Sorry for not being clear - the Dance Schools that hire the premises, as they are the ones distributing the recordings.

Actually, I would say that the prime responsibility for copyright would actually be the company doing the video work, as in fact they will be making the copies before the dance school distributes them.

 

Of course, if it's someone's dad filming and knocking the copies out on behalf of the school, then that's a little different - then maybe it comes down to the dance school itself...

 

Yup, I think you are right - clarification welcome!

[aidso]

assuming parents/guardians don't object

 

Small, almost irrelevant point (but important I feel, because this is a common misconception and needs challenging imo):

The parents/guardians may feel entitled to object of course, but they have no legal basis for their objection - the children are taking part in a public performance so there is no 'expectation of privacy'. Of course you'd be wise to have them on your side, but there is no legal reason why you should need their permission.

 

AFAIK This is only the case if there is two or more children in the shot, if it hasnt changed in a few years. When doing a website a few years ago for a youth club I looked into this. If it can be seen as a solo shot of a person you do indeed need their permission to use it, but if there is two or more people in the shot and the focus is not on one person you do not need permission.

 

If you are doing this I would get the parents to sign a document giving you permission, just to cover your arse, also have on the document a waiver to royalities.

 

And yes it is the MCPS(Mechanical Copyright Protection Society) that covers the copying of any copyrighted material to any hard media. If you are doing a show that is copyright you will need to pay for the show/script the plus all the music within it. If it is an orignal show you will just need to pay for any music within the show that is copyrighted.

 

The person breaking the law would be the person doing the duplication and distrabution. You are allowed to film a show aslong as it is not going to be used for commerical gain.

 

Ha Ha forgot to answer the question.

 

No the venue is no way linked to the recording and holds no responsibility.