deranged-angel Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hi Karl,I suppose I could use a chase but I wanted it to be completely random as I don't want the audience to be able to spot patterns in the "flicker". I've just seen another previous topic as I was searching for KK wheels which suggests using strips of diffuser attached to the fixture. This might be quite nice as it would be "realtime" - if the wind blew or someone walked past it, it would move and look like a flicker as a candle would. So, maybe I could use a combination of a chase on some fixtures and the diffuser idea on others. I've done some experiments with people for my project and had a little LED tealight and one of the main comments was that it was very predictable because there was an obvious pattern so I really want to avoid this. I might have a play with the chase idea and see how quickly I can get it to flicker. Maybe I could set up quite a few different chases for various scenes so that the scene can be enhanced by how much flicker is going on..... Thanks for that :P Emma. P.s. Thanks Gyro for the programme suggestion. It looks quite complicated and like it would do far more than I need it to but I'll try to figure out what it does in more detail! The website doesnt seem to be very user friendly to me. Too much hip speak! Ha ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 The desks I tend to use (Strand 500, 300, LBX and Zero88 Jester) all have a random function on chases so you can program in various steps and the desk will select from these steps randomly. I have used this for candle light, gas light and even the flicker from a TV screen. If your desk doesn't support random chases you could try lots and lots of steps so the repeat isn't obvious. Perhaps have different fixtures on different chases (each with different numbers of steps) to increase permutations still more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 While I prefer the idea of the strips of diffusion, I can't help but think that would be cheating... Running multiple chases which all involve the same fixtures but at different speeds is a very effective way of getting a random look. If all the chases were slightly different with some xfading, some snap and sitting at different intensities I think this could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peternewman Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I had an enquiry last week from a chap wanting to control a small (16x8) LED matrix using a C++ or Java application. He wasn't familiar with DMX, so I suggested that a USB/DMX device might be a way forward...Probably far too late for your question Nick, I obviously missed this the first time around, but I adapted one of the example C++ DLLs for the Enttec Open DMX and have written a Java wrapper for it, which makes DMX output a walk in the park and a few lines of code. PM me if you're still interested. I'll also try and release it properly at some point. I found this while searching.Ben is/was a member here and used to be around quite a bit. What I want to do is add a random number generator on it using something like C++ to make a "flicker" like a candle. I also want to be able to fade the intensity down.I'm not quite clear Emma, are you hoping for a box to sit between your lighting desk and fixtures and add the flicker, a bit like a virtual intensity channel, or to program a very simple application which gives level control of a few groups of channels and applies random flicker to them, all run from the PC? If its the former, it might be worth dropping "brian" a PM, as I think he was working on some bits which could well do this job for you, although I'm not sure how random you can really get with a microcontroller. If its the latter, using the Java wrapper I mentioned above combined with coding it in something like Netbeans will make it a walk in the park if you've played with programming at all before really or can find a friendly geek. I might even be able to knock something up for you, depending on when you need it by etc. you could try using vvvv. I haven't used it myself, but it appears to be a visual programming system designed for audio/video applications. Apparently it can output DMX, though I'm not sure which interface it uses.vvvv doesn't currently support the Enttec Open natively, but I believe it supports the Enttec Pro and Art-Net. There are also a few bodges about to support the Open with Art-Net to Open bridges. All that being said, niclights option is also one to consider, and a proper lighting desk may well be more reliable. I think using prime numbers related to the step/chase times should help improve the randomness and reduce overlap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deranged-angel Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Thank you everyone for your suggestions, they've got me thinking along the right lines - as usual, I think I was going the complex way when there was a much simpler way in front of me. Projects like this have a habit of doing that to you. My desk is a strand 300 and does have the random feature. I'm going to look at some computer based software as I'd like the 0-255 option rather than 0-100 that you get with the lx desk. So, I can see what features the software has. I'm not quite clear Emma, are you hoping for a box to sit between your lighting desk and fixtures and add the flicker, a bit like a virtual intensity channel, or to program a very simple application which gives level control of a few groups of channels and applies random flicker to them, all run from the PC? If its the former, it might be worth dropping "brian" a PM, as I think he was working on some bits which could well do this job for you, although I'm not sure how random you can really get with a microcontroller. If its the latter, using the Java wrapper I mentioned above combined with coding it in something like Netbeans will make it a walk in the park if you've played with programming at all before really or can find a friendly geek. I might even be able to knock something up for you, depending on when you need it by etc. I was hoping for this to run straight from the PC as the level of light is fairly simple and with only 6 fixtures being used. However, I feel the chase idea is much more simple and one that can be used by others. Part of this project is so that if someone else wanted to recreate the Shakespearean stage, they could and hopefully do it fairly cheaply. Thanks very much for the offer though - I'll let you know if the chase thing doesnt work! While I prefer the idea of the strips of diffusion, I can't help but think that would be cheating...I can see where you are coming from but I like the idea of having multiple ways to go about doing this. The idea being that I will use 2 fixtures linked up to a chase sequence and 4 as footlights with the diffuser idea. I don't know, I'd have to see how it looked. I've also got some "cressets" that I'm making which are, again, using the correct blend of LEDs with some fabric and a fan underneath and I'm also making some hand-held lanterns that will have the flicker programmed on to a PIC chip. So, there are lots of ways to go about recreating all or just some of Shakespeare's stage. Great ideas everyone, thanks very much. Emma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I'm going to look at some computer based software as I'd like the 0-255 option rather than 0-100 that you get with the lx desk. So, I can see what features the software has.Hi Emma, I think you're misunderstanding this part of DMX control systems. Most lighting desks convert the 0-255 signal on the DMX stream to a 0-100% number which is displayed to the user. This is purely a visual change - all the internal programming is done in 8-bit numbers (0-255) (or on more modern systems, 16-bit numbers (0-65535) or even 24-bit numbers (0-16,777,215)). On the 300 and 500 series consoles you can enter the syntax Channel # @ {DMX} (0-255) ENTER. This allows you to access the true DMX output value on the console instead of the percentage which is being converted. I hope this helps to clear things up. If you're still looking for USB-DMX devices, the Enttec USB DMX Pro seems to be pretty much the standard for home-software development. The Open USB DMX is cheaper but relies on your PC to do all of the DMX frame calculation and therefore can be unreliable when outputting data if background tasks kick in on your PC, for example. Both these devices are supported by LightFactory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deranged-angel Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Peter,I didn't know you could input a number from 0-255 on the Strand 300. I understand what you mean with DMX - the problems with the percentage change is that, believe it or not, 1% can make a huge difference to the colour, which is why I wanted to have the ability to input 0-255. I've never noticed the DMX button on the desk but then I've never looked for it. Will have a play tomorrow.Thanks very much, my life is getting easier! Emma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I've never noticed the DMX button on the desk but then I've never looked for it.soft key f6 I think ,it appears when you hit @ :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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