cables, looms, different ends ... confusion

[crox]

We are going to be upgrading our desk, and replacing our rack.

 

I am looking at getting a loom rather than lots of individual cables, but our collection of equipment in the rack means that we need both jack and phono.

 

I know that I could get a 8 loom of jack to jack's and then get phono convertors, but is there an alternative solution?

 

I was thinking of looking at getting a backing plate put on the rack so that I could run XLR's, but my skills don't stretch to wiring in an panel, unless there was a plug and play solution?

 

As you can see, I am slightly confused ... and if you have any thoughts, it would help!

[Yorkie]

What's in the rack (Effects units, EQ, CD player?), and will they connect to sends, returns, inputs and outputs or do they connect to inserts?

 

If it's all kit connecting to the desk via the former, and unbalanced (TS) jack lines at that, I'd be inclined to buy a Jack-Jack loom and have someone replace some of the Jacks with RCA's (RCA is the name of the plug used for phono connections).

 

If it's something more complicated, give us a list of the kit and we might be able to make better suggestions.

[Simon Lewis]

Crox,

 

Although it would cost a little more to have it made for you (than, for example, making up your own bespoke panel and loom), the guys at VDC will happily make up any panel or loom with any connector configuration. Their work is good, and many of the major broadcasters and hire companies use their products and services.

 

 

Simon

[crox]

thanks chaps.

 

I will check out VDC ...

 

the list currently is:

 

2 x wireless receivers (1/4 jack)

cd player (RCA)

cd recorder (RCA)

multi-verb unit (TBC - unit to be bought - recommendations?!)

[crox]

just an update really:

 

could I not simply get a patchbay for the back of the rack, plug the relevant CD, wireless mic's etc into the patch panel, then take a jack to jack loom into the desk.

 

Any recommendations on the patchbay, or other solutions of course. I hardly need a 48 bay as it is a bit overkill.

[Chris L]

If you're on a budget then you can get 4 and 8-way RCA phono to jack looms from thomann - http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_sssnake_sk4225_snake_chinch.htm for example

The patchbay idea would work, but would cost more

 

Any idea of budget for your multi-verb unit?

 

HTH

Chris

[crox]

To be honest, there isn't one, but it has to be reasonable, so a mid range would be fair, but again depends on the price. Our current venue is crap for acoustics, can't wait to move if we ever get round to it.

 

I like the idea of the patchpanel, cleaner and helpfully when training I reckon.

[Matt Riley]

I'd say the easiest way is to get a pre wired multipin solution from VDC, tho it could be a bit pricey. M

[crox]

I'd say the easiest way is to get a pre wired multipin solution from VDC, tho it could be a bit pricey. M

 

I have thought about that, but was recommended away as they can prove pretty fragile, and a right pain to fix compared to a single XLR connector. I know of one major church in London which has gone back to old school from using a multi-pin solution.

[Matt Pengelly]

From what you've said, a patchbay would be massively over-engineering a solution to a fairly simple problem.

 

Personally I'd go with the suggestion by Simon and others of a bespoke loom. I'd think you'd be looking at something like:

 

CD Player - 2 RCA Phono > 2 RCA Phono into the 2TR in

CD Recorder - 2 RCA Phono > 2 RCA Phono into 2TR out

Multi-FX (let's say a 2-in/2-out job) - 2 TRS Jacks > 2 TRS Jacks on an Aux send / 2 TRS Jacks > 2 TRS Jacks on a stereo channel/aux return

Wireless RX - 2 TRS Jacks > 2 TRS Jacks (assuming they need to go into a line level input, otherwise XLRs)

 

Working on the basis that you're not going to need said loom to be very long as everything is likely to be at your mix position already I shouldn't imagine you're looking at more than £70-80 ish.

 

As has been suggested earlier, VDC are the chaps to speak to. Out of interest, who gave you the impression that a patch panel would be less prone to failure? Given that whatever you do is going to involve coming out of one set of connections and going to the corresponding I/o on your desk, why would converting everything to XLR (as you mention), going into a patchbay and then converting back out of the patchbay into the desk be a simpler solution? Just seems like an awful lot more solder points and connectors to fail to me!

[crox]

I was referring to the multi-pin being prone to failure, not comparing to the patch panel.

 

Whilst yes, the panel is overkill where we are at 'currently', but given six months time, I don't want to have shell out on another loom if we look at putting in a compressor and another wireless mic. I have to look ahead as I don't want my judgement queried in the future, because we bought for current requirements rather than thinking ahead of time. The patchbay would allow for easy expansion, with just purchasing another simple jack to jack loom.

[Andrew C]

If I was in your position, I'd make a multi myself. Have a look at Canford or any other supplier and see if they have off cuts of something like HSJ in the number of ways you need now, doubled. Put the relevant connectors on the first 8/10 ways leaving plenty of spares. In the rack use phono/RCA or jack as appropriate. At the desk end either use a multi (for speed) or individual jacks (for cost). If you use a multi, you then need to make a spider to connect to the desk.

 

That said, Canford don't seem to have any in the remainders or clearance sections at the moment. Don't be tempted to use the FSM, it is intended to be used in an installation.

 

Now I have to say here that I'm more than handy with an iron, and I don't have to justify my time, so YMMV.

[crox]

your mileage might vary? Haven't heard that one before ...

 

It is a good point, but I am not handy with an iron, and TBH don't have the time to do stuff like that. I don't get time to clean my car let alone play with a soldering iron.

 

I think I will settle on a 50m multi-core, with a case on castors, at least it doubles up for additional storage then.

 

The only thing is, what size case do I need?

 

I could do with a recommendation for a multi-core too ... nothing too expensive, just solid enough to stand up to setting up and packing down every weekend.

[Matt Riley]

with the multipin thing, there are good ones (VDMs, Hartings) and bad ones (EDACs). I work for a Student's Union in a big university, and we use multipins all the time. This kit gets seriously (ab)used hard, as does the touring stuff I work with, and if it stands up to that, I'm not too worried about a small scale church application getting used once a week!

 

M

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

also, are you sure about the 50m multi? Most venues give you quite a lot of slack in a 30m multicore, and the only time I ever use more than that is when we gig in southampton guildhall (c2000 people venue, FOH at back, 45m multi) or when we do festivals.

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that unless you can

a) afford vdc or

b) convince a solder tastic friend to make one up out of decent components

then

c)you could do worse than buy a slightly over specced cheap thomann one, and just replace it when the channels go dead!

 

M