New Lighting Board to replace Strand 300 series

[gareth]

have you thought about a Jands? I've seen a few demo's on the vista, looks pretty good, operates closely to a strand but I will admit I've never used one myself.

And that, folks, is why recommendations of equipment by people who've never used that equipment are totally and utterly worthless.

 

The Vista, while a very good console in its own right, is nothing like a Strand in the way it's programmed and operated. Vistas are excellent at what they do, and in the right scenario you can do things on a Vista that would be too complicated to think about doing on a 'traditional' keypad/command-line desk like a Strand 500 - but they're not, to my mind, the right desk to choose if you're looking for an upgrade path from an older Strand desk.

[nic_watkinson01]

Ok.

Lets put another twist on this!

What is actually wrong with your 300 series and do you desperately want a new desk? The 300 series can still be repaired and Strand will help with this. Mine packed up only 6 weeks ago and now works again no problem following a fault with the embedded hard disk on chip.

If you can tell us whats wrong you may be able to get it up and runnign again.

 

Nic

[thetechguru]

I'm sort of tempted to say that as you can't get a "Strand" any more, your users are going to HAVE to learn a few new tricks on whatever you get. I like ETC (but less so the slidey fader thing) and doubt you'll find anything easier to learn in a hurry.

Sorry to upset everybody in lampy land but Strand has not gone away! Desks can still be serviced and you can buy strand from 5 main dealers throughout GB. - sorry just read Nic reply above but have left this in to emphasize the point.

[smalljoshua]

When Andrew Said you couldn't get a "Strand" he meant a nice easy to use powerful desk like the 300 & 500 series.

 

As most people on this forum probably know Strand is still making desks in the shape of the Pallet and others.

 

But they don't make the type of desk that older members will reminisce about.

 

Josh

[paulears]

the snag is that strand only have a few sets of spares, all kept 'centrally' in the usa. slx have some 'collected' parts they use for repairs but one board is unique to the product and costs more than the desk is worth! we have covered this all before. the real problem is users want a 600 control, and there isn't such a beast. so they are forced into something they resent. that is my view.

[gareth]

I'm sort of tempted to say that as you can't get a "Strand" any more, your users are going to HAVE to learn a few new tricks on whatever you get. I like ETC (but less so the slidey fader thing) and doubt you'll find anything easier to learn in a hurry.

Sorry to upset everybody in lampy land but Strand has not gone away! Desks can still be serviced and you can buy strand from 5 main dealers throughout GB. - sorry just read Nic reply above but have left this in to emphasize the point.

I think the reason that Andrew put "Strand" in inverted commas was to make the point that, while Strand as a brand/company still exists, it' a very different beast to the 'old' Strand that we all came to know and love. Not necessarily (and it hurts me greatly to say this) in a good way, either. I was lucky enough to see where development on the Palette was heading before Genlyte came along and stuck their oar in, and even though it was still a long way from being finished, I think I can fairly safely say that they'd have had a decent product on the market in time to compete with ETC's offerings, and perhaps kept the foothold that they had in the UK entertainment industry. Sadly, it appears that that foothold is now somewhat eroded - you only have to look at the apparent 'mass migration' of die-hard Strand customers and users to other consoles to see that. I wish that wasn't the case, I really do - I was brought up on Strand desks, and some of the best consoles I've ever used have been Strand ones - but unfortunately it's happening.

[thetechguru]

Hi Gareth

 

 

Never having lit a show seriously I can't understand what all the fuss is about ( after all operating a lighting desk is easy isn't it!! :) ) All I can say to the doubters is go try the desks at PLASA and make up your own minds and don't be drawn by the thoughts of others. Long live the Duet!

[gareth]

All I can say to the doubters is go try the desks at PLASA and make up your own minds and don't be drawn by the thoughts of others.

Well, that's the thing .... I think a lot of people have had the 'trade show experience' of the Palette at ABTT, and PLASA last year. Unfortunately, what that means is that they saw the Palette, and were then able to compare it in a fairly immediate and 'like-for-like' way to the Eos and Ion - and sadly, I don't think that's a comparison that it comes out of particularly well.

[Ynot]

All I can say to the doubters is go try the desks at PLASA and make up your own minds and don't be drawn by the thoughts of others.

Well, that's the thing .... I think a lot of people have had the 'trade show experience' of the Palette at ABTT, and PLASA last year.

Yup - trade show knob-twiddling is FAR from an ideal way to choose a desk.

the only really practical way is to get a working desk on trial in your venue and hammer it (well, maybe not literally) for a time with YOUR dimmers/kit to see how it performs in YOUR environment.

[iaindennis]

.....unless at that very trade show you find that a manufacturer has learned the errors of the last two years, has re-written the software to become a logical successor to the consoles everyone knew and loved. At which point, the decision making process might become a little more of a 'no brainer'.

 

Have I heard something? <cough> couldnt comment.

[mac.calder]

/me starts whistling "Too little too late"...

 

Seriously though, even with a complete re-write, there are a couple of hardware design factors that people have issues with which will probably still leave the Pallet as a distant last place contender. They have been splashed all over the forums - things like lack of digital labeling for faders etc. Even if the software is re-written to be almost identical to the Strand of Old, it still lacks a lot of features found in the current high end generation of desks... Unless they are planning a hardware re-build.

[paulears]

Almost every manufacturer looks at their product range, gets feedback internally and externally on what is good, bad or missing - then incorporate these features into the next generation. I suspect everyone who was comfy on Strand from the the M24 days saw these improvements on every new control. They were also aware of the awkwardness of some of the syntax, or complicated workarounds to do the things asked for on a daily basis in the venues.

 

To younger members without the history, I can understand the amazement they have when this topic goes around and around, but they lack the 'history'. When there was a single major player here in the UK, and a few others around the edge, needling to get in - things were simple. Venues automatically bought the next desk as it appeared. Schools would buy manual desks. Small venues might go for GSX or LBX, and only the big venues went for the 400/500 series. However somebody who could work a GSX could walk straight into a venue with a 500 series and make it work, first time, as all the things their one could do, the big desks could too - and even had the same button labels. This was a huge advantage to people starting out - no learning entire new syntax and reading manuals. You just read the book when you wanted to do something new. This made lighting troublefree to a large degree. It was almost like a car thing. You maybe had a fiesta, but when the family got bigger you bought an escort - maybe getting a Galaxy when the family expanded even more. All the local garages understood Ford, and there were plenty of reliable old models around if you were skint! You might have fancied getting a Honda, or a Fiat, or maybe importing something in left-hand drive, but why risk it?

 

Imagine that Ford suddenly stopped making cars, and re-badged a foreign make you'd never heard of. Every advantage to staying loyal to Ford suddenly vanishes, and you just buy the one that seems to suit you best. You probably say goodbye to your local garage too, as they might not be able to service it. Spares might have to be brought in from abroad if it's other than something very common. Some of your trusted local Ford salesmen might still be about, but frantically reading the manuals on the new cars to be able to answer your questions. The polish would be superb, but ask where the cruise control is and they'd have to admit there wasn't one, but it did have a alarm?

 

Nowadays we have got fairly used to ignoring salesmen, doing our own research, then taking the plunge and living with the result. In the past, things were much simpler - and I guess us oldies are just annoyed that our comfy security blanket has been removed forcibly!

 

In a way it is good. Lots of us, me included, are now using products we would never have even looked at three years ago - so it isn't all bad. I guess you'll have to put up with nostalgia for quite a while!

[gareth]

.....unless at that very trade show you find that a manufacturer has learned the errors of the last two years, has re-written the software to become a logical successor to the consoles everyone knew and loved.

They can't re-write the hardware, though, can they? *cough* ... lots of soft-keys and encoders, no soft-labelling ... *cough*

 

Edit : sorry, didn't notice Mac's post until after I'd posted this!

[brianeades]

I'm sort of tempted to say that as you can't get a "Strand" any more, your users are going to HAVE to learn a few new tricks on whatever you get. I like ETC (but less so the slidey fader thing) and doubt you'll find anything easier to learn in a hurry.

 

Have you used any of their other desks? I have heard that the Ion isn't bad but haven't tried one myself.

 

What would really help the moaning would be if we had a proper intensity wheel on the desk, but I can't see anything that you could purchase as an add on; on the ETC site.

My venue bought an ION on my recommendation.Easy to operate same language as strand,takes a while to get use to.Took about 2 days of hands on

[tommulliner]

You do know this thread is over 2 years old right?! I think the OP will have sorted their problem by now! :)