Sound Level Meter

[Lion Tamer]

Hi All

 

I am looking to buy myself a sound level meter for general noise measurement.

 

I would like it to have the ability to log the sound level over a non predefined period of time (anything between 0.5 and 4 hours at a time), this log can either be something that it does internally for later download to computer or direct to the PC. Connection can be either by RS232 or USB (I am prepared to even consider transfer/recoding to memory card).

 

I have been looking round the blue room for a thread which I know existed, it gave opinions and links to various different meters which I was going to look through - at the moment I have been unable to find the thread again.

 

From what I have been reading on here it would be advisable/preferable to have a meter with A weighting - Do people agree or have I mis-understood things entirely.

 

I don't need the very high quality stuff but would rather spend a bit more for a fairly decent bit of kit now rather than pay out a second time later - I reckon that my budget is probably about £100 at the moment although this may be stretchable. If my budget is way off then please say what you think I ought to be paying and I will look at saving up and getting something when I have that amount.

 

A meter that appears to fit my requirements is this one - Any comments/experience with this bit of equipment greatly appreciated.

 

Feel free to mention any others that you think would be suitable/better for my requirements.

 

Thank you all in advance.

 

Jem

[johndenim]

Link goes nowhere Jem,

unless there is something wrong with my broadband.

 

John Denim. :D

[6th Order]

Link works for me

[Lion Tamer]

The link does work but that particular site has been suffering a bit over the past couple of days so you may need to refresh it a couple of times before it loads the page.

 

Jem

[johndenim]

Ahh, you know, just after you said that I clicked and it's straight on!

 

This looks like the one a h&s guy used at my day job (engineering) to measure dB levels.

I actually asked about it, and he said it was the "dogs bits". (hahahah)

It stored info to later be transferred to a pc, so judging by his comments I would say its pretty good.

 

Your'e not going to upset any sound engineers with this horrible thing are you?

 

John Denim.

[avdavesound]

don't need the very high quality stuff but would rather spend a bit more for a fairly decent bit of kit now rather than pay out a second time later - I reckon that my budget is probably about £100 at the moment although this may be stretchable. If my budget is way off then please say what you think I ought to be paying and I will look at saving up and getting something when I have that amount.

 

a fairly decent bit of kit will still cost you 500 to 1000euro and the high quailty stuff will cost a couple of thousand.

can that cheap one be callibrated yearly? I use this one with the extra firmware crossgrade, mini spl and minirator. great portable unit alot of useful features along with the spl and logging feature thomann prices

[Simon Lewis]

Well, thanks for the link, and congratulations to Rapid for sourcing such a low cost meter that (apparently) does so much! I may have to buy some to replace the ageing Tandy units we use to teach initial sound level meter operation!

 

If what you want is to keep an eye on sound levels at events and services, and absolute accuracy isn't paramount, then go for the Rapid unit.

 

I have the NTI kit, but tend to use it more for the Speech Intelligibility option. For your application, you could use the Acoustilyser. It will do SPL and logging, and most importantly Leq (i.e. it's an integrating meter) but you need to buy the Acoustilyser, the MiniSPL and the Minilink.

 

There are dedicated meters that offer Leq, and the 'lower cost' ones (Castle etc.) would be worth looking at. As others have mentioned, a "serious" meter with calibration, a calibrator, class 2 accuracy the usual range of measurement indices would cost from £1000 upwards. My class 2 Norsonic kit was about £2000, and the industry standard B&K units are several times this amount. Class 1 adds more money again.

 

Unless you need to take Leq readings (and for me, that is very important) the Rapid will suffice. Otherwise, you need to look further for logging integrating meters.

 

Simon

[david.elsbury]

Your'e [sic] not going to upset any sound engineers with this horrible thing are you?

Why would an engineer get "upset" by the presence of an SPL meter? I find them quite useful, if the person using it is reasonable, it's good to have a guide especially as when mixing the same show over a number of nights, (e.g a musical) your ears can get used to the levels, and it is possible for them to creep up. Keeping an eye on a meter can help prevent this.

 

On a side note, John, why must you comment when you admit to having no personal experience with this (or any other) SPL meters? Just anecdotal evidence from an engineering day job? :D

[Lion Tamer]

Hi all

 

Thank you for the responses so far.

 

This looks like the one a h&s guy used at my day job (engineering) to measure dB levels...........

.....It stored info to later be transferred to a pc, so judging by his comments I would say its pretty good.

Any Chance you could find out for sure as it would be interesting to know if it is.

 

Your'e not going to upset any sound engineers with this horrible thing are you?

I am the sound engineer so it seems stupid to buy it to upset myself with it. :D

 

If what you want is to keep an eye on sound levels at events and services, and absolute accuracy isn't paramount, then go for the Rapid unit.

Yep this is mainly what I intend to use it for - We have just a had a request (informal complaint) from a neighbour asking to keep the noise down a bit as she is pregnant and her bedroom is right next to the wall of our building.

 

There are dedicated meters that offer Leq, and the 'lower cost' ones (Castle etc.) would be worth looking at.

Have you got a specific unit in mind as I have had a look at the Castle site, but can't find any "lower cost" meter that logs although I may have missed something somewhere.

 

As others have mentioned, a "serious" meter with calibration, a calibrator, class 2 accuracy the usual range of measurement indices would cost from £1000 upwards.

I did wonder whether my budget may be a bit optimistic.

 

Unless you need to take Leq readings (and for me, that is very important) the Rapid will suffice.

If I have understood what I have been reading correctly then as long as the meter takes the measurements at the correct intervals and stores it with the time that each measurement was taken then Leq can be worked out afterwards using some maths - Am I right or have I gone completely off on the wrong track?

If I am right then depending on how the rapid unit stores its data I might be able to write something in VB that will work this out for me.

 

I will e-mail Rapid to ask for some more information on that particular unit and let you know the outcome.

 

Jem

[Simon Lewis]

If I have understood what I have been reading correctly then as long as the meter takes the measurements at the correct intervals and stores it with the time that each measurement was taken then Leq can be worked out afterwards using some maths - Am I right or have I gone completely off on the wrong track?

If I am right then depending on how the rapid unit stores its data I might be able to write something in VB that will work this out for me.

 

This might work, but your meter will take a reading at a given point in time, and could "miss" a given peak sound. An integrating SLM will take all acoustic energy over the measurement period and integrate it to show the Leq. This is the way in which most environmental and nuisance noise figures are obtained.

 

Logging is good for time history of the noise event, where you need to know when an event occurred, or possibly if you are measuring SEL.

 

I can see the rationale for logging, but I would suggest that taking the Leq during the noisy part of the service will show what maximum levels you are generating. A word of caution though - an officer from your local noise team has only to judge that your activity is a nuisance, not that you are exceeding a given level for him to ask you to lower the level. It would be prudent to work with your neighbour and demonstrate that you are accommodating her complaint. When the baby is born, you will probably have a mix of you interrupting her sleep, and her bay interrupting the quiet parts of your services!

 

Simon

[johndenim]

Your'e [sic] not going to upset any sound engineers with this horrible thing are you?

 

On a side note, John, why must you comment when you admit to having no personal experience with this (or any other) SPL meters? Just anecdotal evidence from an engineering day job? :D

 

 

I made a comment David because of just that, the chap using it noted how good it was.

 

Sorry if I offended anyone by not actually owning one....

Unfortunately Jem I don't think I'll see this chap again, I just happened to be in the factory at the time, I don't work there, I am a sales rep for the company.

The comment regarding upsetting engineers was just a tongue in cheek reference to someone from the local council regulating noise levels. It wasn't a personal attack, honest!

in the words of michael winner..................

 

John Denim.

[Gill Cussons]

Hello All,

 

I have noticed quite a lot of discussion on environmental noise and some points are way off the mark.

 

The key thing is that the meter you use is corret with the type of measurements it can take and the person taking them knows what they are doing. EHOP abilities can alter from county to county with some being experience in this filed and some now having a clue, hence why more people monitor their own noise so they have the ability to question anything the EHO produces.

 

One of the main regulations that has come in to for this year, April, is the Health & Safety side, and the new noise at work regualtions now covering the entertinament & music sectors. A H&S inspector, as well as the other areas he checks, will be ensuring you are not exposing your staff to noise levels above the stated levels, which in most cases of the music sector, they are. Plus with more and more people sueing their employee's, companies are wanting to do this to cover their backs incase staff come back to them 10 years+ down the line after they have left.

 

I work for the largest noise measurement equiment in the country and I've guided, trained & sold equipment to so if you need any information on these regulations, training or euiqpment, drop me a line on gill.cussons@cirrusrsearch.co.uk. We've worked with huge indoor & ourdoor venues, Health & Safety consultants, EHOS', pubs, clubs and event management companies.

 

Gill

[Simon Lewis]

Hi, Gill,

 

Welcome to the Blue Room, and thanks for your comments. There is a lot of misunderstanding out in the entertainment industry, but we try our best in discussions here to improve on that. Were there any specific posts that didn't get corrected? It might be helpful for you to comment on them?

 

Might I make one or two of my own..?

 

One of the main regulations that has come in to for this year, April, is the Health & Safety side, and the new noise at work regualtions now covering the entertinament & music sectors.

 

The entertainment and music sectors were "covered" in the original 1989 Noise at Work regulations, and continued to be subject to them in the two year transitional period for music industries from when the Control of Noise at Work Regulations (2005) were introduced in April 2006, to when that period ended in April this year.

 

A H&S inspector, as well as the other areas he checks, will be ensuring you are not exposing your staff to noise levels above the stated levels, which in most cases of the music sector, they are.

 

I'd agree that there are many cases of exposure at or above the upper exposure action value. However, there are many cases where this is not the case, or if the exposure is measured over a working week, the upper limit is not reached. Furthermore, apart from a few events where I have worked alongside EHOs to manage the impact of entertainment noise, and a few venues with electronic noise limiting systems, I have not come across company health and safety personel or local authority inspectors checking noise exposure. In the latter case, I suspect that the limited resources and unsocial hours mean that enforcement is problematic.

 

I'm not suggesting that we ignore CONAWR2005, but would suggest that many venues will ignore it, or plead ignorance - just as they did with the 1989 regulations. Only the higher profile (probably council run?) venues (e.g. The Sage) will put time and effort into compliance.

 

 

drop me a line on...

I understand that the Blue Room policy on selling your company's goods is, "it's OK to respond to a direct question, but not to use the board as unpaid advertising" The Classified Section provides a means for that.

 

 

EHOP abilities can alter from county to county with some being experience in this filed and some now having a clue

 

Sorry to bring it up, but I had to read your post several times, in order to try and understand it. I'm sure you'll agree that accuracy in written material is an important aspect of communication ;-)

 

I'll send you an e-mail regarding your company's products, as I may need to purchase some for teaching.

 

Regards,

 

Simon

[MarkPAman]

I have not come across company health and safety personnel or local authority inspectors checking noise exposure. In the latter case, I suspect that the limited resources and unsocial hours mean that enforcement is problematic.

 

I have seen the former, probably due to a threatened promised visit from the latter, specifically mentioning NaW. I guess it's easier to check a college during the day, than a venue at night

 

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

I've found this site very useful.

[Gill Cussons]

I have not come across company health and safety personnel or local authority inspectors checking noise exposure. In the latter case, I suspect that the limited resources and unsocial hours mean that enforcement is problematic.

 

I have seen the former, probably due to a threatened promised visit from the latter, specifically mentioning NaW. I guess it's easier to check a college during the day, than a venue at night

 

 

Are you in a college? Yes as I imagine it's in their own time if on a night. The main hurdle is the HSE have not published any guidelines yet (endorsed guidelines) 'sound advice' was published along side the HSE, then they said they would not endorse it afterall. ( I know this due to a customer of mine from the BBC and a colleague who provide training for us were both on the HSE focus group for these regs)The fellow that wrote the comment rightly wrote that these regulations are in deed the Noise At work regs from 1995 but the enterteinment and musc sector had an 'extension' on enforcing this due to it's complex nature of the product of these venues is noise, as it where.

 

Many colleges and uni's I have spoken to have had widely varied involvements from one Uni being part of a pilot in looking at the Noise at work in their student union venue to other uni's having to reduce noise in the classrooms of music lessons... and in workshops building sets of performances and also the environmental side of regulations from practice class noise spilling onto outsiode and causing complaints.

 

MendDip council - who cover Glastenbury - have introduced the environmental nosie levels for small pubs and clubs etc as part oftheir application for their drinks/entertainment license. Rather than impose restrictions and ask about what they intend to do.. they have been helpful to come up with solutions and recommendations, feedback from local businesses has been positive.

 

Gill

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

I have not come across company health and safety personnel or local authority inspectors checking noise exposure. In the latter case, I suspect that the limited resources and unsocial hours mean that enforcement is problematic.

 

I have seen the former, probably due to a threatened promised visit from the latter, specifically mentioning NaW. I guess it's easier to check a college during the day, than a venue at night :D

 

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

I've found this site very useful.

 

 

 

Thanks for the Link.. I had read their booklet but not yet been on their site, looks very helpful, I'll have a read through thanks.

 

Gill

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

I apologise if anyone things that my message was a 'free sales ploy' I saw this and thought there may be others that were in the same scenario so believed I was responding to a query withi the forum. My response was from the various people that replied to this person.

 

Sound Level Meter

I am looking to buy myself a sound level meter for general noise measurement. I would like it to have the ability to log the sound level over a non predefined period of time (anything between 0.5 and 4 hours at a time), ...

Blue Room - http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php

 

Best wishes