Long shifts and Hours off?

[ceecrb1]

Ok heres the story, In our company we are not paid overtime (mon-fri).

(Saturday and sunday we get a flat rate regardless of day length or task involved.)

 

We earn hours off work (generally stored up and taken as complete days on an agreed date.)

 

In the past, if we had worked (EG) and 18-19 hour day for a large event, we were generally told to return to work 10hours after we leave for home.

(ie if we stop at 6am we´d arrive back at 4pm).

 

 

Our new boss (an accountant, its not working out too well for the staff with him in charge.....)

Is stating that this time will we reduced to 6 hours AND the hours within those 6 hours that the office is open, will be removed from our "hours off totals".

Eg we finnish at 7am, and return to work at 1pm. The office opens at 9.30 so we´d LOOSE 4.5 hours of time off we´d "earned" the night before.

 

 

 

I´m in spain so legalitys arnt too clear here (our warehouse manager and union rep is investigating over the weekend).

but whats normal for you guys?

[niclights]

I work on a yearly hours total. Minimum 11 hrs between shifts. Max 48 hrs in a week. Half-hour break every six hours (sure...!)

 

This is in accordance with EU Working Time Directive.

[Bryson]

Well, the Working Time Directive is a European Union Directive, (of which Spain is a part), and mandates an 11 hour rest period in any 24 hours. (Note: that's a 13 hour shift maximum there...!)

Member States shall take the measures necessary to ensure that every worker is entitled to a minimum daily rest period of 11 consecutive hours per 24-hour period.

Quite how that directive went into law in Spain is more difficult to find out from Google - (unless you speak Spanish!) so you'll need to look that up for yourself. But if they did it right (there's no guarantee that they did...) then that's 11 consecutive hours...a good 5 more than your boss wants!

 

As for taking it off your hours in lieu - well technically, that's right. If you're at home, even on a "mandatory" break, then you're not working. Obviously, as long as you work 8 hours once you get there, then the extra hours will "roll over" forever, so you don't lose anything.

[ceecrb1]

Thats an obvious and clear link I should´ve looked for.

 

Personally I´m not too worried about them taking the hours away from our hours earned off.... to me the maths adds up like that..

 

HOWEVER, I do dissagree that

1 hr @ 4am sweating like a blind lesbian in a fish shop is NOT = 1hr in warehouse/home.

 

 

There are 2 other proeblems (what fall into the same category).

1 is that here in Valencia (more so than the rest of spain) there is a REAL "it´ll be fiiiiiine" attitude to everything including laws.

H&S is JUST starting to get some attention, our production girl has pushed the boat out and forcing the staff on H&S courses (which were free) and this is VERY rare and deemed as highly "modern" and "trouble making".

2 is that our new manager is also the accountant. Hes not good with people or managing staff. He is PURELY interested in the financial health of the company. Therefor he always looks for options which will save money rather than at times spending a little and making the staff safer/ happier/ better trained. And he is NOT affraid of the union. He completely ignores standards in laws. Eg the other day he gave someone an official written warning over an issue he had NOT investigated, but mearly heard rumours about and taken action.

 

There are other such laws here, like after one year in a company, you automatically gain a permanant contract (which here is extremely necessary, you cannot get a credit card, car loan, bank account.. anything without a permanant contract.) I have passed a year and been given ANOTHER 3 month contract, whe I brought up the subject, he basically gave me a "unions dont scare me" speach.

 

had enough of this guy and the company and looking else where, but I still wont let them scew me over while I am working there.

[Ben]

There are a few things that need to be considered, one is that the Directive in fact states it must be an 11 hour rest period, this is specifically NOT 11 hours between shifts and is often argued that it in fact must be 11 hours at home so if it takes an hour to get home and an hour back thats 13 hours between shifts. The second is that you have the option to opt out such as accepting overtime where you know this will cut into your rest time. this also does not apply to people who are self employed (or lots of other cases that we wont worry about here).

 

this is a matter that without knowing Spanish law I cant really tell you what you should do but if this was in the UK you would be advised to file a grievance with the company and have a meeting to discuss it ensuring that there is someone there who will act s an impartial witness in case things get nasty.

[ceecrb1]

Bens clarification of the directive does actually help out.

 

We are more ocupied by our rest period than our pay or time off (as we never really get it, I finnished last year with 19 days to take off after 6months work.. they all dissapeared into thin air.....).

Our lunches generally last 2 hours and it is usually all we get. that means we can argue for the other 9.

 

I´m going to pass this onto our union guy, being french hes the best arguer we have <_< (why we elected him hehehehe) and will definately get to the bottom of it.

[niclights]

While there are different ways of interpreting the directive, opt-outs and the local agreement, perhaps the more important thing is the reason behind the directive? ie. the benefits of rest and the negative affect of long hours. What might seem like a money-saving exercise could be false economy, especially if something really bad happened.

[ceecrb1]

nic has said exactly what my view is.

 

Nearly every time I go home with a bruise because I walked into a truss or dropped a peice of kit, was when I was xxxx hours into a long long shift or a long long week.

 

Its not unheard of to repair cables on site long into a shift and forget to put the sleive over the cable before soldering the connector etc..

 

 

For me, the fact is that on tuesday its a long day rig and a night programming session, before a wednesday dinner gig, derig will probably finnish 5-6am and at 10 I´m opping 14 mics ALL DAY in a theater the next morning for a band. Not to happpy about all that.

[The Gaffa]

My 2p worth.

 

Working to many long hours can be detrimental to your health, and the safety of others.

Whilst I know there are times when we have to work 24 hours plus, the rewards are not always worth it.

 

A good example of this happened recently (last week) to a colleague of mine who had worked a 24 hour shift and then was expected to work for another 12 hours, Obviously exhausted he then went to assist with unloading a flatbed using a HI-ABB, he forgot to set the out riggers, misjudged a load and tipped the truck over, injuring himself, nearly injuring three others. (Causing £10,000 worth of damage to the building & truck)

 

 

Said colleague is in a stable condition in hospital (broken arm, pelvis & both legs).

[Guest lightnix]

...there are times when we have to work 24 hours plus, the rewards are not always worth it...

Sorry, but IMO there are NO REASONS WHATSOEVER why anyone should ever "have to" do those kinds of hours. What about night crews?

 

...a colleague of mine who had worked a 24 hour shift and then was expected to work for another 12 hours, Obviously exhausted he then went to assist with unloading a flatbed using a HI-ABB, he forgot to set the out riggers, misjudged a load and tipped the truck over, injuring himself, nearly injuring three others. (Causing £10,000 worth of damage to the building & truck)

 

Said colleague is in a stable condition in hospital (broken arm, pelvis & both legs).

Who the hell "expected" him to do a 36 hour shift? It's at times like these I really wish we could have some names, so we know who to avoid working for. It may be mean, but I find it almost impossible to feel sympathy in these situations any more. Sure - it's not something I'd wish on anybody, but in this day and age, with all the warnings that have been given and examples that have been set, it just amazes me that people can continue to be so... stupid, really :)

[djw1981]

I'm sure that the HSE will be very interested in the working practices there, especially when people have been injured.

[Bryson]

Along with the injury lawyer he chooses to represent him. In this case, I'd support his doing that.

[The Gaffa]

There has been an investigation started, obviously for legal reasons I can't name the employer, but all I can say it was a venue in Surrey.

 

As to working 24 hours or more, I aggree that we shouldn't have to do it.

 

Unfortunatley some of the smaller venues can't afford to employ night crews, and expect the equipment to be out on the same day / night.

[Stuart91]

Unfortunatley some of the smaller venues can't afford to employ night crews, and expect the equipment to be out on the same day / night.

 

I'd draw a line between an occasional one-off (e.g. the "busiest weekend of the year" ) and regular working practice. If the venue need to have gear regularly out day and night, and can't afford the crew to turn it around, there's something wrong with their business model.

 

(I'm not saying that a 36hr shift is acceptable under any circumstances though!)

[berry120]

In my mind, working 24 hours under any circumstance isn't acceptable. Sure if it was a secretary typing out forms for 24 hours solid, then perhaps I wouldn't be as concerned. Not sure the person in question would be too happy about it, but you're not going to kill anyone that way.

 

If you expect anyone to do the same amount of work in this industry however, in my mind that's just plain - wrong. Chances are if you're working 24 hours solid some of that is probably going to involve lifting heavy stuff, operating machinery, perhaps dealing with electrics - and those are all things that could seriously injure or kill a number of people if things went wrong. Even if it's just the one off, I really can't see that keeping the same staff on a 36 hour shift is a worthwhile shortcut to make, and I'm sure the contractors in the above incident are going to find it very hard indeed arguing that point!