Al Cain Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Helloo folks, Just a question but a mate of mine has been offered some work for a week with pay totaling around £400 for a weeks work with 18hour days minnimum. I told him that I dont think that is really fair since it works out as under the minnimum wage for every hour worked. pay includes a peanut of pay for every mile traveld to the work (under 50p per mile)! I don't think this is fiar and as a freelancer he should be working for a day rate not this small ammount especially since he is being asked to do work ranging from being a lampy to general crew. thoughts please folks. Cheers.ACedited for spellg error Mods this might be better in the office area.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Agreed. Not reasonable at all, even for someone of very limited experience. Unless the week was just two days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Entirely unreasonably. Anything under minumum wage is legally wrong, asking a freelancer for minimum wage work is also wrong as you've got the cost of insurance, tools etc to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taffymonster Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 First thoughts are I wouldn't get out of bed for that!! 18-hr days - isn't that illegal? I'm aware of the nature of the industry and I've done 24-hr days before (hourly pay!) but I thought everyone is entitled to 8-hrs sleep and writing that much into a contract (assuming there is a contract) is just scandalous! Sure there was something on the ABTT about this a while back actually thinking about it, but I'm not 100% sure. Maybe someone else has a linky I can't find the page I remember. How much under 50p a mile? Would expect 40/45p a mile from a few companies to be honest, that just about works out okay with rising prices, but anything under that's a p*sstake really... Assuming a week's a week (IE 7-days, 18hrs), then £400 for the week breaks down to around £3.17 p/h. Which just isn't funny... If I was your mate I'd tell the person offering that work to, erm, stick it up their jumper!! EDIT: I think I've got a fair idea what company your on about too, at least the terms are similar. If so I *definately* wouldn't accept any work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djw1981 Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Sadly many companies pay the Inland Revenue rate for milage - 40p for first 10k. This figure was calculated in 2001 for 2002/3 year but not uprated since. Petrol in 2001 was about 20p/litre lower than now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Cain Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 If it were 40p I think he would be fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul TC Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Sadly many companies pay the Inland Revenue rate for milage - 40p for first 10k. This figure was calculated in 2001 for 2002/3 year but not uprated since. Petrol in 2001 was about 20p/litre lower than now. Unfortunatly it is not as simple as that as these are tax-free limits. If you are paid more then additional NIC's become due, and who wants that hassle. "Employees using their own vehicles for work are entitled to receive certain payments free of tax and NICs (the rules for each are related but not identical). If employees receive greater amounts than are allowed tax-free, they will pay tax on the excess. If they receive greater amounts than are allowed NICs-free, both employers and employees will be liable for Class 1 NICs on the excess. If employees receive less than the respective amounts above, no NICs will be payable and tax relief will be available." HMR&C Page for above Still not fair. with over 30p a litre increase within how many months ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djw1981 Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Yeah I know its not that simple, but was illustrating that many companies adopt the simple route when paying freelancers for travel - and ignore the tax implications, hence why accounts are needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Cain Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 interesting comments guys lets keep going, and thanks for the replies/thoughts so far...AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berry120 Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Seems completely unfair if you ask me. At least 18 hours?! If it goes over that that's gonna work out at less than you've calculated, for a heck of a lot of travelling, long days, little sleep, unsociable hours... Doesn't seem much point as well, he could probably get more money working a lot more locally for less time. And that's without the legal issues that I'm guessing are probably there somewhere along the line, though I can only really guess. But, legal issues aside, it just doesn't seem worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnomatron Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 utterly unfair, your mate should refuse point blank. If people will take this sort of work, then companies will continue to feel they can get away with offering rates as poor as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightsource Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Unfortunatley, from a different angle, we could also ask, how desperatley does he need the money / job. As others have already said, if it works out under the minimum wage, then it's illegal. If there's much more that a few miles to travel, then an 18 hour day is not going to give him much more than 5 hours sleep per day........what's he going to be like by the end of the week? Fartigue / tiredness causes mistakes. Mistakes can kill. Also, not mentiond, what sort of breaks has he been offered per shift? We did a 23 hour shift a few weeks ago, and it was a killer......it was only one day, and although PA hire was factored into the cost, we charged more for 1 day, than you're mate is being offered for the week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonino Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Unfortunatley, from a different angle, we could also ask, how desperatley does he need the money / job. As others have already said, if it works out under the minimum wage, then it's illegal. If there's much more that a few miles to travel, then an 18 hour day is not going to give him much more than 5 hours sleep per day........what's he going to be like by the end of the week? Fartigue / tiredness causes mistakes. Mistakes can kill. Also, not mentiond, what sort of breaks has he been offered per shift? We did a 23 hour shift a few weeks ago, and it was a killer......it was only one day, and although PA hire was factored into the cost, we charged more for 1 day, than you're mate is being offered for the week! if he's taking it as a self-employed contract, then it isn't illegal, as NMW act doesn't apply. Doesn't make good business sense though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Don't the work time directive thingy have something about 11 hours off in every 24? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackerr Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 In addition to the points that have been made already, working for a flat rate for unspecified hours means it is in the employer's financial interest to work you as long as possible. The longer you work, the cheaper you are. Don't ever work for a flat rate without specified hours. And yes, the rate is a joke. Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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