Stage Managers taking maternity leave or working with a family..

[Grace Stonehouse]

I am basing my dissertation on the above question and would be really interested in finding out how many female and male stage managers have been in the position of making choices between their family and stage management career.

 

As stage management is 90% freelance work I have found from local interviews with women in the industry that many have had to take to teaching their profession or a complete career change until their children are older. In many cases their arguments have been similar in places highlighting such topics as long hours, no flexibility or child friendly support, not enough money etc…

 

I would also be very interested in opinions of other stage managers (male or female) embarking on a family or with young or older children, and what they did or are doing to keep in with the industry whilst supporting a family.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this topic.

[paulears]

Hi Grace, a few people off the forum have been talking about your post, rather than do it publically, because although they do have opinions - they're uncomfortable posting them!

 

I suspect everyone agrees with you that the unprotected nature of being a freelance is a big problem. I can only speak for myself, but pensions, sickness pay, cancelled jobs, no security, no benefits in fact of any kind do mean that you accept these things as normal. If you're in this kind of job, then if the lack of maternity benefit is a worry - then don't do the job. I'm not anti-maternity benefit, but being very honest, and prepared to be shot down in flames - if I don't have any protection, being a bloke - then giving women extra rights would be a kick in the teeth. You just have to accept that if benefits are important to you then freelance status isn't much good. I've heard the same thing from driving instructors, musicians, technicians and other self-employed people. Some are lucky to be able to re-arrange their life around a baby - but others either have to change tack, or give up.

 

I'm not sure if there's much mileage in this, assuming you don't want to bash the women's rights trumpet - but if you do wish to kind of push the cause, so to speak, then I'm afraid my own opinion isn't very positive. Equal rights I'm all in favour of - but in self-employed land where you get paid for what you really do - I don't see how it is even possible. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if some kind of benefit was to be paid to self-employed people taking 'time off' for circumstances of their own chosing - it would do our industry no good at all, and the number of women in it would fall as a result. The options would be to put the onus for paying benefit on he employers (which wouldn't work) or the government would make us all dip into our pockets, and that's a no-no.

 

Over the past 10 years or so it's been really good to see the number of women in it rising - this kind of thing, I reckon, is unworkable and frankly a bit silly. I you want to take time out - for any reason, that's a choice - not a right.

 

Maybe, seeing me post this, others who disagree with me will come up and give their opinion too - which would be good. At least I have started the ball rolling.

 

Paul

[cfmonk]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Paul here. Whilst still being a whippersnapper myself and just getting into the industry full time I have little experience of the maternity issue. However, there have been numerous occasions where I have had to go to work when I have been feeling awful from man-flu etc. when I wouldn't have gone (and have not gone) if it was a salaried job.

 

There have been two occasions when I have not gone and on only one did I expect to be paid (it was a residential job and the whole crew got struck down: nice), on the other it was quite the opposite and I spent a long time desperately finding a replacement for me as I wanted to get future work! I think I actually ended up out of pocket as I had to pay a mate's train fare for him!

 

There is a whole different and perhaps more fruitful area to look into which is the treating of employees as freelancers and so avoiding giving them the protection which they actually deserve.

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Or perhaps a brief investigation into the types of insurance available to freelancers and the implications thereof? I could do an economics investigation...

[indyld]

The main point "if you don't like, don't do it" has been well put by Paul and, as someone who has always been a freelancer, I agree with the sentiment. I always get up tight when some union member complains about pensions etc.

 

I do have a particular male insight into this situation ...

 

When our son was born, my wife was very ill and it became apparent that I was not going to be going back to work after a few days. So, as a freelancer, I did the sums, called my clients and spent a year looking after the family, with few days work that I was able to take during that time. A year was necessary as my wife was soon pregnant with our daughter - there is 13 months between the children.

 

Career and money wise - it was tough. We are still catching up five years afterwards - savings spent etc. My career progression definitely took a knock backwards which has changed my work situation in the business, probably forever. But I wouldn't change it for anything ... blah blah...

 

Government Handouts - We got the bare minimum of everything we were entitled to (as we are both self employed). One thing troubles me and it may well still be the case today ( I really can't be ar***d to look it up) :

 

In the UK, employed mothers are can get Maternity Pay, father get a few weeks paid leave, which is paid for by the taxpayer. Fine.

 

Self Employed mothers are entitled to Maternity Allowance. This is basically Maternity Pay for the self-employed, again government funded.

 

Self Employed fathers get NOTHING. That's serious inequality.

 

Anyway,

 

I would say that anyone who has a family makes choices between their career and their family. I know female stage managers who spend more time teaching but many just left theatre and worked in other industries that had better hours and benefits. Although many fathers do primary childcare ( in my house we are BOTH primary carers and both self employed), still many women want to do it. They also reflect on what a brilliant experience it can be and much better than climbing the greasy pole, so happily change their working situation.

 

My current job of 15 years (freelance LD and PM) is becoming increasingly incompatible with the life I want to live with my family in the future. So I am making a very slow exit. Many people in show business know that, in their heart of hearts, it's not forever. Anyone interested in having a "normal" family life better have a pretty good backup plan.

 

Although we are constantly told that is our human right to "have it all - career, family, car, house, plasma TV .......", most people realise that you have to compromise. It doesn't matter if you are male, female or even work in the entertainment business for that matter.

 

So, that's a quick rundown from here.

 

Hope this give you a bit of Dad perspective.

[zonino]

There is a whole different and perhaps more fruitful area to look into which is the treating of employees as freelancers and so avoiding giving them the protection which they actually deserve.

 

to broaden this out somewhat, if it can be shown that someone was actually essentially acting as an employee (I forget who the onus is on to prove which situation) those protections can be backdated,

 

Also consider if the freelancers you are considering qualify as "workers", if they do then they are entitled under E.U. directives to Holiday Pay, there are rumours these rights are going to be extended beyond holiday pay to sickness/maternity etc.

[Jivemaster]

The difference between employed and Self-employed is crucial here! The employed have very different rights from those of the self-employed.

 

Many (most?) theatre positions are self employed so "not available to work" means not getting paid, and repeatedly not available means losing clients.

 

Having a baby is a life changing experience! Having a happy healthy "normal" baby will occupy the mother totally for several months then cause "work" to be second priority for 10+ years. Having a less than healthy baby will occupy both parents for months.

 

Trying to return to work after years is very hard!

[richard]

I think it is also worth pointing out that 'self employed' means that you are employed by yourself this means that you should ensure that you are charging your clients enough to:

 

- Cover the times you are not working

- Cover any time you are ill

- Cover holidays

- Cover pensions

 

etc etc. This is the reason that self employed people tend to get paid more per day than employees.

[pisquee]

Also, worth pointing out that there are theatre/tech jobs available that are full time/fully employed that come with all the usual benefitsthat come with employed status, if you want those kind of benefits then freelance is probably not the best option for you.

[Guest lightnix]

Sorry if this is a "me too" post, but I think the general tone of the replies so far is bang on the nail. This is the down side of self-employment: minimal welfare and pensions, in return for paying minimal income tax and NI. If it's employment rights you're after, then get yourself employed.

 

There is a whole different and perhaps more fruitful area to look into which is the treating of employees as freelancers and so avoiding giving them the protection which they actually deserve.

to broaden this out somewhat, if it can be shown that someone was actually essentially acting as an employee (I forget who the onus is on to prove which situation) those protections can be backdated,

 

Also consider if the freelancers you are considering qualify as "workers", if they do then they are entitled under E.U. directives to Holiday Pay, there are rumours these rights are going to be extended beyond holiday pay to sickness/maternity etc.

A discussion on the nature of the business relationship between freelancers and their clients is probably best conducted in a separate thread and could run to many pages. Having been a self-employed freelancer myself for about a quarter of a century, I am firmly of the opinion that many (if not most) freelancers are treated on-site as though they were temporary employees... but without any rights ;)

[andy_s]

I am firmly of the opinion that many (if not most) freelancers are treated on-site as though they were temporary employees...

 

this is certainly the case regarding people who may call themselves freelancers working on equity contracts - which of course is a situation many stage managers and actors find themselves in. A contract of employment exists between them and the management, they are entitled to pension contributions from the management, they pay class 1 NI contributions, there's a statutory (or better than statutory) holiday entitlement, etc etc. I think there would be an entitlement to maternity / paternity leave in certain circumstances but I'll confess I'm not sure of my ground here....this would be complicated by the fact that many equity jobs last less than 9 months I suppose....

 

However the waters are muddied by the many producers / management who do not operate under Equity rules. Indeed I heard recently of a contract where compensation was to be offered in the form of food rather than money. This is of course completely illegal, but one wonders what the management's answer would be if the question of maternity leave came up - throwing in a bottle of guiness for the iron content, along with the rice salad and pitta bread perhaps?

 

and of course there are big variations in employment (or contracting) practices between the Theatre / equity environment and other areas of entertainment / infotainment / call it what you will, which lead to to propagation of further urban myths / misunderstandings about employment law and practice which unscrupulous managements can exploit....

[zonino]

at the moment, if someone is invoicing for their services provided they are not entitled to sickness or maternity pay, however they MAY be entitled to holiday pay, if they qualify as a worker. (As most freelancers do)

[Jivemaster]

Having never worked in a theatre, I'll just pose the question.

 

Is stage management a career choice for a woman or is it something to do until supportive partner and babies can be found?

 

I worked in corporate and wedding events and a good number of the wedding and event planners were working on a commission in kind basis! For an amount of business put a venue's way they got entertainment at that place. Initially this was useful as a taster for the next clients, After a few years they could afford an absolutely fantastic wedding for themselves on the commission then retire to wedded bliss.

[lx bear]

Im not Stage Management, but wanted to add, that when I was pregnant with my daughter I was working as a freelance technician, I accepted my status, its what I chose to do before I found out I was expecting and discovering I was pregnant didnt change that. It was extremely hard going financially when I wasnt working, but we got through.

Im now working full time in a secure setting as technician at a private school.

WHY?

 

Because I moved away from London and the majority of Freelance work. Work is work what ever type of contract you get, Having kids while working is a challenge what ever you do.

[paulears]

Moderation: It seems Grace made her first post and hasn't been back - we've run out of space without her input. So for the moment, I've closed the topic - we can always reopen it if/when she comes back - just ask any moderator. Paul