Biskit Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Hi Guys, I've been using a Fat Frog for the first time 'in anger' this week. I'm more used to Avo desks for movers, and various oher desks for dimmer-only events, and I know the Frog range (apart from now being superceded by Leap Frog/Frog2 anyway) are much lower budget than, say, a Pearl. However there seem to be some fairly standard things it can't do... or am I missing something? Primarily... why can't I program a chase onto a submaster? I do this all the time on a Pearl, and find it useful for busking with generics. The show I'm doing isn't one where theatre-stack will work, so I want to program a load of pre-sets into submasters (including several different chases) so I can use them quickly during the gig. Similarly, I want to use a few movers (Mac 250) and have some basic scanning movements in various colours etc. On a Pearl, I'd simply use the shape generator and save to a play-back, but on the Fat Frog, I think I will have to programme it as a chase of positions(?). Again, if I have to do that, I need it on a submaster not a cue-stack memory! Or am I missing something? Is there a way of doing this? Perhaps somehow 'mapping' a submaster to a memory. But even if I can do that, can I use multiple chases at once? Perhaps I have an old software version? Or maybe the hardware simply isn't up to this task? Any ideas from experienced Frog users? Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peternewman Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 You should be able to program chases as memories on the cue stack and then transfer the memory to a sub. It should all be covered in the manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modge Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 The thing you're missing is the "transfer no time" button and it's close personal friend the "transfer with time button" That will move memories (be they chases or scenes) from the stack to the subs. The other way to do it IIRC is to be on the sub masters screen when you press record. Either way you then tell it which sub you want(and are prompted if you're going to over write something). (OT scarily I just tried to end that last line with a semi colon. Any one would think I was distracting my self from coding.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBoomal Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Why does everybody knock Zero 88 desks/ What you want to do is straight forward on all the desks and all the manuals are available on the Zero 88 web site. http://common.zero88.com/public/files/Frog...al_Issue_6C.pdf EASY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhogg Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 As stated above, you can program a chase and transfer it to the subs. You can have multiple chases at once, only on the subs though. You need up-to-date software, as newer versions have implemented tagging etc. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamtastic3 Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 Why does everybody knock Zero 88 desks/ What you want to do is straight forward on all the desks and all the manuals are available on the Zero 88 web site. EASY. Seriously, the manual for the Fat Frog - some of the stuff in that is just in the wrong place and some things are not explained well. I'm really not a fan of the desk or the manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biskit Posted April 20, 2008 Author Share Posted April 20, 2008 Why does everybody knock Zero 88 desks/ What you want to do is straight forward on all the desks and all the manuals are available on the Zero 88 web site. EASY. Seriously, the manual for the Fat Frog - some of the stuff in that is just in the wrong place and some things are not explained well. I'm really not a fan of the desk or the manual. Thanks for the responses guys. I did have the manual with me but not a lot of time... I found the manual to be rather cumbersome and somewhat illogical. I have nothing against the desk (yet!), in fact I'm hoping I'll be impressed with it when I get used to it, as I'm now stuck with it in one of my regular venues! In the manual, I could only find reference to chases in the memories/cue-stack sections, and I was under the impression that the copy with/without time butons (which I only read about after I left the venue) only work the other way round from what I want. I tried creating a chase directly to a sub using the procedure for putting it on a memory, but with the 'submaster' button selected insted. It didn't work, although admitedly I may have missed out a crucial step or something. If anyone has a minute, could they describe the button presses required to do this? As an aside, is it possible to store only certain ML attributes in a sub? Eg. so I could store movement chases to one sub each, and have various other subs with different colours/gobos etc? This would give the maximum number of combinations using up the fewest subs. Thanks again for the replies. Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamchristuffin Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 First, create a chase as a memory on the cue stack.Once this is programmed, use the + and - buttons to get the yellow line over the chase. Press Transfer With Time. A dialog box should appear, asking which submaster you want to transfer to. Press OK, and the chase should be on the submaster. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 In the manual, I could only find reference to chases in the memories/cue-stack sections, and I was under the impression that the copy with/without time butons (which I only read about after I left the venue) only work the other way round from what I want. I tried creating a chase directly to a sub using the procedure for putting it on a memory, but with the 'submaster' button selected insted. It didn't work, although admitedly I may have missed out a crucial step or something. I think this has been pretty adequately covered by other people - basically program it onto a Memory, (by holding down the MEM TYPE button until it becomes CHASE, then press PROGRAM each time to program the required steps). Then select the memory with the yellow "Next" bar and press Transfer No Time (or Transfer With Time) and select the submaster you'd like to move it onto. As an aside, is it possible to store only certain ML attributes in a sub? Eg. so I could store movement chases to one sub each, and have various other subs with different colours/gobos etc? This would give the maximum number of combinations using up the fewest subs. Thanks again for the replies. Ben.What you're asking for is something similar to the Avo "Record By Channel" mode, I assume. We call this "Partial" mode and it is engaged in Super User/Desk Setup/Program Mode. Just like the avo desks, modifying a parameter by moving its wheel or fader 'tags' it for programming. In version 10.9 software, you can select to always record brightness parameters, and whether the memories track. If you need any more help, please feel free to drop me a mail directly at Zero 88 - pkirkup@zero88.com Hope this helps, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biskit Posted April 20, 2008 Author Share Posted April 20, 2008 What you're asking for is something similar to the Avo "Record By Channel" mode, I assume. We call this "Partial" mode and it is engaged in Super User/Desk Setup/Program Mode. Just like the avo desks, modifying a parameter by moving its wheel or fader 'tags' it for programming. In version 10.9 software, you can select to always record brightness parameters, and whether the memories track. Hi Peter, Thanks for this, I will check I have the latest software and try this. Armed with this and the other pointers people have given, I will go back and have a good play with the desk. It does sound like it can do everything I want, just requiring a different way of thinking. If I have any other issues I will get in contact, thanks for the offer. Thanks to all for the help, and hopefully this thread has been (or will be) useful to others transferring to a Frog desk for the first time. Cheers, Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 Although I have been using a Frog for over a Year this thread has also clarified a lot of stuff for me too. Thanks to everyone that posted! :P Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bloke Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 I believe you have to program a chase into a blank sub-master; it won't overwrite existing data. Hope that helps. Persevere with the Fog - it's a brilliant desk for the money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassium Neuf Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 I believe you have to program a chase into a blank sub-master; it won't overwrite existing data. Hope that helps. Persevere with the Fog - it's a brilliant desk for the money! If you attempt to transfer a memory onto a programmed submaster you should get a warning message and the option to overwrite the submaster with the memory or cancel the operation and leave the submaster as it is. A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. Similarly, I want to use a few movers (Mac 250) and have some basic scanning movements in various colours etc. On a Pearl, I'd simply use the shape generator and save to a play-back, but on the Fat Frog, I think I will have to programme it as a chase of positions(?). Again, if I have to do that, I need it on a submaster not a cue-stack memory! You can program fixtures with movement effects directly onto submasters. The movement effect parameters (shape, size, speed etc.) are regarded as additional position parameters for the selected fixtures. Movement effects are much quicker and smoother than programming all the individual fixture positions into a chase memory ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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