Amdram nightmare

[poornamechoice]

All, I have recently inherited (as a favour) what I can only at present describe as an amdram lighting rig headache, I was sold on the fact they told me they had already spent £3.5k on a lighting desk, I thought they must have a decent rig if they had spent that much on a desk, how wrong I was; I turned up to the following:

 

2 x FOH side bars, each containing 1 x Patt 23 (looks first gen, no shutters), 1 x Patt 45 (enough said) and 1 x Patt 123

3 x On Stage bars, first bar containing 9 x Patt 60 floods, the other bars containing some really really old lights and some garden PAR 38's strapped to the bars.

 

There were some spare lights hanging around, I took a look at them and was tempted to cut the plugs off staight away...inside was two core cable, completely unearthed - I dread to know what is contained in the lights on the rig itself (I will take them all down once I get a set of decent ladders, not the wooden decorators set they had available). Apparently the previous lighting guy was paying £25 a bulb so would imagine they also all take original T1 bulbs.

 

The infrastructure looks OK and installed by someone competent, 3 x 6ch Betapacks (with 15A connectors) each supplied by a 32A ceeform and a DMX desk that I have yet to see (was told its a Zero 88 dual preset but not a memory desk). All of the circuits on stage and on the bars have been terminated with 13A sockets and all the lights fitted with 13A plugs.

 

My plan is to get every single light down, clean them, take a look inside them, then as I can't see any stickers on them to say they have been PAT tested (I expect the comittee to stare at me like I have walked off mars when I say those words) I will tell the commitee that before I put my name on something I would like to see them tested so the next person to plug them in dosent get a dose of 240v. I will attempt to keep the lights which look half decent (probably ditch the 45's) and get them into a state of working order then recommend they purchase;

 

6 x PAR 56's (combination of beam sizes) - purely for budget reasons, don't imagine they will strech that far this year

All new G-Clamps (previous lighting bloke said some of the existing ones were homemade ;) )

All new safety chains (it was a surprise they actually had them to start with)

 

Then in the future upgrade with (working on a probably generous £1k budget);

 

2 x Used Minuette Profiles

4 x Used Minuette Fresnels

2 x Coda/Similar Cyc Floods

1 x 4ch Switch Pack for practicals/other lights

Spares (lamps, barn doors, gels, gobos and holders, clamps etc etc)

 

I will probably buy my own DMX-PC interface and use it with my laptop for shows, using the desk only if im feeling brave or using the desk as a hot standby.

 

What I'm after is any advice (including just cutting my losses) or any alternative equipment you could recommend that I have missed. Here is a diagram (not to scale and sorry its so small) that I hope is useful...the hall I would say is about 20' x 40' which I have shortened on the diagram.

 

Cheers..

[alex_hughes]

Safety Chains ;)

 

and Claims Direct on speed dial....

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

In addition, what PC DMX control are you thinking of?

[daveyg]

This sounds a bit like our current setup..except you have DMX :blink: and a few more lights than us. I'd consider what you've got as heaven-sent ;)

[Suzette]

15amp sockets on the bars and 15amp plugs on the lanterns?

[Neil Hampson]

I wouldn't write off the Patt60's just yet, granted the 500W GLS lamp doesn't do quite as well as a linear lamped Coda, but the 9 of them will give a decent 3 way 3 point cyc wash, espesially as the stage is not that wide. maybe that's for a much longer term upgrade. As the stage is so small they may even prove more useful as a general cover backlight, or even cover from spotbar No. 1 (Lx 1) as I am assuming that there isn't a great grid clearance.

 

I would imagine it would be better to go for Par64's rather than a Par56 as the price differencre is not huge, and you can always use 500W lamps if power is limited.

 

As for the future expansion, Look at just how wide flood you need for a stage wash from LX 1, you may find that the Patt 60's were bought for a reason. Buy a few more Fresnels rather than the Coda Cyc lights and I think that you could be on a good start. other than 'standard practice', I would think that changing the 13A for 15A plugtops is a luxury that you can't afford yet, even then if faced with changing everything I would be temped to go for 16A in any case, it's cheaper and propably going to be better if you hire in addtional stuff.

 

On an infrastructure note, I would be good to plan on expanding the two perch positions to hold more than 3 lanterns (maybe this can be done already, double hanging) or have a FoH bar installed near the back of the hall

[david.elsbury]

First, I wouldn't bother with the PARs. The beam angle on them is likely to be far too small to be useful, so all you end up with is an oval spot, with ill-defined edges. Also, the existing safety chains. Are they chain, or are they wire rope "safety bonds"? If the former, maybe best to replace them though there is not neccesarialy any need or benefit to do so, these are items that generally will have a very long service life. The only reason to replace is if they are in poor physical condition.

 

There is nothing wrong with using 13a per se, just that the fuses in the plugtops mean that in the event of a fuse blowing, you have 3 or more places to search to find it- dimmer, installed wiring/patchbay plugtop, and luminaire plugtop.

 

What PC control software were you thinking of?

I see no reason why you shouldn't use the desk they have.. it's a small hall, there is no need to go OTT plus there's something about having to think about fades, etc on a manual system which keeps you on your toes, rather than being "lazy" and using a PC system

 

My 2c

David

[poornamechoice]

All, thanks for your replies and I'll take them on board..including having claims direct and a Dr on call for when a burning hot fresnel ends up in someones lap due to homemade g-clamps and some rather flimsy chain.

 

Oh and I think I forgot to say that all of the sockets on the bars are actually domestic extension leads (white cable aswell, looks nice on the bars ;) ), just with the plug taken off and a 15a plug on them. As you say probably nothing wrong with them as per se but a little backwards I thought, why not just do 15/16a on all the system.

 

Which PC-DMX control I ain't sure of that as of yet...was looking for something (surprise surprise) quite cheap and simple, nothing too fancy, just having the ability to do some fades/chases would be handy - although I did think of the Behringer LC2412 but it appears to have some mixed reviews on this site.

 

On an infrastructure note, I would be good to plan on expanding the two perch positions to hold more than 3 lanterns (maybe this can be done already, double hanging) or have a FoH bar installed near the back of the hall

Thought of this myself when I walked in for the first time...but another thing I'd like to get checked out is the integrity of the bars themselves...especially as they look original fit. And yes the FOH bar straight across the roof would be my dream, but I am dealing with some people that will view lighting as last on every one of their lists of things to do I'm looking at what stuff I can do myself first...but I can dream.

 

I would imagine it would be better to go for Par64's rather than a Par56 as the price differencre is not huge, and you can always use 500W lamps if power is limited.

Was playing about with this one aswell and you might just have solved my dilemma...I was thinking purely on a heat and output basis as the existing lights are quite close to the front of the stage they are about 1' higher than your head and right in your eye line and you can feel the heat off of them, was going for the P56's due to lower heat but as you rightly say P64's with 500w bulbs in may be a better idea. Power should'nt be a problem either way.

 

I'll look into keeping the P60's aswell...I did think of trying to use them slightly better than they are at present...can they be re-lamped at all for anything more efficient or is this as good as they are to get?

 

First, I wouldn't bother with the PARs. The beam angle on them is likely to be far too small to be useful, so all you end up with is an oval spot, with ill-defined edges. Also, the existing safety chains. Are they chain, or are they wire rope "safety bonds"? If the former, maybe best to replace them though there is not neccesarialy any need or benefit to do so, these are items that generally will have a very long service life. The only reason to replace is if they are in poor physical condition.

I might get two PAR's on hire myself and give them a go to see how they look and I did think re the lack of controls on hem - would this be that noticeable with warm colours or is it really obvious? And they are definately chains, and very small ones at that - they look to have been installed for some time, it was for peace of mind for a couple of quid a lantern just to get them onto safety bonds.

 

What does everyone think of the Minuettes, are they worth going for or should I look at some of the no brand new or perhaps used minim/cantata/quartets?

[adamharman]

Safety Chains ;)

 

Slightly OT, but what is the current thinking on safety chains? I know everybody is going over to wire safety bonds now (I've got about a 50/50 mix), but what's wrong with chains?

[Neil Hampson]

Regarding Safety bonds Vs Chain. there is nothing wrong with safety chain, there is no legal or safety reason to change chain out for bond if the chain is in a good condition, however from the sound of it the chain may not have started life as a safety I have seen many home-made bonds made from bit of garden chain and worse, if the hook clamps are home made then God knows what the bonds are made from... It may be wise in the long run to replace them Bonds are not expensive items now, I think Used lighting do them for about £2.50

 

The CCT Mineutte fresnels are good solid units and there are generally quite a few second hand floating around, a bonus for you is that they have a good wide beamspread at full flood, and they are nice and small, personally I would use then in preference to a Quartet, but I would prefer Preludes if you can get them. There are a lot of 'Budget' 500W fresnels out there on the market that go for about £45 new, although I have no experiance of them. Stay clear of the Minims, they have a tiny lens and are only really useful in very tight spaces (also I think they are limited to 300W, the early ones at any rate), and if you can ever afford them, the Selcon Acclaim fresnel is a very nice unit. You mentioned Cantatas, do you want to go with 1K's They would prove useful as a strong side light, but may dazzle the cast in view of the sightlines you have. If so keep a look out for couple of Patt 743's (cira 1970's, but in keeping with the rest of your stock) They have a fantastic beam angle range, have a nice big lens and seem to last forever. Certainly of my stock the 743's look like they will outlast the CCT Starlettes by a long way.

 

Check that the Patt 60's are fitted with a 500W lamp, many that I see are fitted with a 300W lamp. As far as I know the 500W GLS, GES (Giant Edison Screw) base is the best you will get.

[gyro_gearloose]

With your Patt 60s, make sure they've got wire mesh guards on them. We had some Patt 60s a few years ago and the glass the lamps were made from was paper-thin. Once, the glass evelope broke away from the lamp at its neck, though fortunately the angle of the lamp meant the glass didn't fall on the floor.

[Light Console]

Just to add to what Neil said about Minims, the coloured Minims are 300w, but the black ones can go up to 500w.

[Jimi]

Your groundplan looks almost identical to the one we're using. The only difference being we're using 24 PAR64's as our only source of light ... I hate them. Not only do they give off enough heat to give you a golden tan but, as ours have no barn doors they light half the audience as well as the stage!

[Trunker]

Stay clear of the Minims, they have a tiny lens and are only really useful in very tight spaces (also I think they are limited to 300W, the early ones at any rate)

 

I have got loads of Minim F and PC and they are 500w,. These are the Minim RANGE, not to be confused with the original Minim, which was only 300w. I quite like the minim for side lighting, or for picking out special features on a set! They can be quite useful sometimes!!!!

[Shez]

I was sold on the fact they told me they had already spent £3.5k on a lighting desk

(snip...)

a DMX desk that I have yet to see (was told its a Zero 88 dual preset but not a memory desk).

 

I really hope they didn't spend £3.5k on a dual preset desk! If they did, sell it, buy a reasonable memory desk and spend the remaining £2.5k on new lantern stock etc.

[Trunker]

I was sold on the fact they told me they had already spent £3.5k on a lighting desk

(snip...)

a DMX desk that I have yet to see (was told its a Zero 88 dual preset but not a memory desk).

 

I really hope they didn't spend £3.5k on a dual preset desk! If they did, sell it, buy a reasonable memory desk and spend the remaining £2.5k on new lantern stock etc.

 

Mmmm that is a bit worrying, especially when used lighting are selling a Frog 2 for about that price !!!!!